Slovenian position on Macedonia and Croatia

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  • Demos
    Banned
    • Dec 2008
    • 325

    #31
    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    It is an interesting observation by Sarafot.
    The Macedonians that were not allowed to enter the civil war (thanks to Tito) would have swung the entire battle into a new direction and we all know how different that war would have been without the USA involvement. (... I don't love the smell of Napalm in the morning btw, nor do the Kosturtsi).

    It is merely conjecture, but it is obvious it would have been a very different situation. Do you deny this TN? Do you deny what the Macedonians of Greece were fighting for when they sided with the commies?
    The Macedonians in Greece were fighting for cessation from Greece and the Communists were fighting for domination within Greece. The communists promised the Macedonians an autonomous republic in Northern Greece if they fought on the communist side, but in the end the republican/royalist forces of Greece smashed Greek Communists and their Allies. After their defeat Communists and their Allies all ran for their lives to Yugoslavia and other Communist countries.

    Only dreamers and fools would ever risk their lives to fight for a Communist Greece. In Greece the Greek Orthodox Church is way to embedded in society for Greece to ever become an atheist communist country. In many ways, the State and the Greek Orthodox Church are one and in the same in Greece even to this day.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #32
      Demos, some blatant revisionism there mate.
      Nobody has time for communism .... now! Having said that, it was rampant in the rest of Europe and further afar back in the bad old days. These "dreamers and fools" you speak of were something much more than significant 50 years ago.
      Why do you talk about the Communist party and their Allies as opposed to the Royalists and their Allies? The Royalists had much more to lose and their Allies input was much more significant. Quite the Greek apologist aren't you.

      I note you like to talk about Royalists/Republicans as interchangeable words.
      It is historical revisionism, and you guys are the masters.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Sarafot
        Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 616

        #33
        Royal to whom?To German king or princ?
        Chento was prepared to go on Aegean,guess who stoped him?
        KOMUNJARI!!
        Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
        - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

        Comment

        • Pelister
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2742

          #34
          Originally posted by Demos View Post
          Sure it doesn't exist...the Earth is flat too.


          The language of Christianity in Macedonia, and the language of Church, literature and song, was in Macedonian, not Greek.

          The Patriarch was created in 1850. The Greek "Orthodox Church" only emerged after that.

          It was the first time ever a Greek Patriarch was the head of Macedonian Christians under Ottoman rule.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #35
            Originally posted by Pelister View Post
            The language of Christianity in Macedonia, and the language of Church, literature and song, was in Macedonian, not Greek.

            The Patriarch was created in 1850. The Greek "Orthodox Church" only emerged after that.

            It was the first time ever a Greek Patriarch was the head of Macedonian Christians under Ottoman rule.
            The Greek Orthodox Church still has no rule over the Macedonians of Greece. Perhaps the Patriarch knows something the Greeks don't.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Philosopher
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 1003

              #36
              Guilt by Association

              Some time ago, when I was an undergraduate at my university, my professor, who was also my academic advisor, upon first meeting him, inquired whether I was Polish, because of the Macedonian surnames having a similar, though not the same, ending as Polish surnames.

              He did not understand that there is a difference betwixt the two surnames, however slight.

              I told him that I was Macedonian and I pointed to the map; he told me he knew where it was and began to tell me that he could relate to me because he once visted Slovenia. Naturally, I was puzzled when he told me of his visit to Slovenia, since I was dumbfounded to know what the relationship was between Slovenia and Macedonia and how his visit thither had any bearing or connection to Macedonia.

              I began to surmise: if I said I was from Romania, would he be telling me he could relate to me because his grandmother is from northern Italy and he visited Italy? If I was from Spain, could he relate to me because he visited Italy?

              Another professor of mine, a friend, who is from Cyprus, Greek, was puzzled at my profession of being a Macedonian. He began to tell me that "Greeks don't like that." Unlike most Greeks, he was not a Greek nationalist. In fact, he didn't care too much for Greece or Greek life.

              One day, when I was visiting him, a student of his came into his office, who was from Slovenia, and assumed that we are both the same people, of the same nation. We began to explain to him that we are not the same and that there are differences between us; in fact, I didn't understand a word she spoke in Slovenian.

              Why is it that so called Slavic nations are grouped as one, like so called Arabic ones? Why are people who speak Slavic called Slavs--instead of Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian, etc? Why Slav?

              I have often asked my self what the hell do I have in common with some Russian or Ukrainian, being a Macedonian? However, many Macedonians think this way. This is especially true amon' the older generation. They see this pan Slavic union of sorts; they embrace it, cling to it, and cherish it.

              Now I understand that there is a language connection but I ask--other than this, what connection really exists between the peoples? Many northern balkans people and Eastern Slavic nations look down upon southern balkans' slavs with contempt.

              As a Macedonian, I see myself first and foremost as a Macedonian. I do not see myself as part of some group known as Slavs. I don't consider myself a Slav. I don't like group labels. Being a Slav is subtle because it thwarts me from professing as a Macedonian; being a Slav gainsays me my unique heritage of being a Macedonian. I am not a Slav who can relate to the history of Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Slovenia, etc. Nor do I want to relate to those people or their history or their culture. I would rather relate to ancient Macedonian history, ancient Mediterranean history, and more recent Macedonian history.

              As a Macedonian, I can relate to Macedonian history and culture only--and naught more. I fear that too many Macedonians don't think in these terms. They fail to grasp the gravity of the matter; when we close down the walls that distinguish our people, our legacy, our language, culture, and history from other Slavic speaking nations we subvert our own unique cause, struggle, and fight; we can gainsay our own heritage as Macedonians.

              Part of the problem that subsists to the present age is the tired old fable of "we're all one people" the lie of the Yugoslav era. "We're all Slavs" or we're all "Slavic Orthodox." This erroneous thinking has led to the problems of today. Granted, southern balkans slavs are very close in langauge and in DNA haplogroups, but this does not mean we are the same people, with the same heritage.

              Please do not mistake me; I have nothing against Serbs and Bulgarians or Greeks for that matter. As southern balkans people, we all share some features together; we are genetically very close, and our histories have crossed paths for aeons.

              Let the Serbians have their own life; let the Bulgarians have theirs too.
              But as Macedonians let us have our own existence and our own nation.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                #37
                Good reading and well said.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Dimko-piperkata
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1876

                  #38
                  Slovenian PM meets with Ivanov

                  The incumbent Government leads Macedonia in the right direction, the one of European integration. The fact there is a standstill in the beginning of EU accession talks is not due to the Government or the Union, but one of its members, which sets conditions that do not have anything in common with the factual accession criteria, said former Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Jansa after meeting with VMRO-DPMNE presidential candidate Gjorge Ivanov.

                  Jansa also referred to the European People's Party meeting in Brussels, attended by VMRO-DPMNE leader Nikola Gruevski.

                  "The meetings focus on coordination of decisions that formally go through the EU Council, so your PM is active in this regard. Accordingly, Macedonia is far from isolated", said Jansa.

                  According to him, EPP has a European Parliament president and European Commission chairman, which will also be the case during the future Swedish EU Presidency.

                  "This is a favorable development that Macedonia can use with this Government, and on the basis of the latest European Parliament report get a date for beginning of accession talks and annulment of visas by the year-end", added Jansa.

                  VMRO-DPMNE presidential candidate Gjorge Ivanov said meeting with Jansa focused on Macedonia's Euro-Atlantic perspectives and everything that Slovenia does in this regard as one of its biggest supports.

                  "We discussed how can this be used if I am elected president, and how could this process gain in dynamics", stressed Ivanov.
                  1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
                  2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

                  Comment

                  • Prolet
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 5241

                    #39
                    Zoran Taler wants us to compromise if we want to join the EU

                    What a crock of shit this is, we have EU members who have recognized our name telling us to change it just to please Greece. At least Romania is saying they wont back either side where as Taler is basically telling us to change our name.

                    МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                    Comment

                    • Makedonetz
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 1080

                      #40
                      Prolet

                      Is he even macedonian? Sho meno je Taler?

                      Talks are becoming rediculous we should just tell them to stick their membership where the sun dont shine.

                      Also good to see the invititation of Romanian President Traian Basescu arrived this morning on his first official visit.

                      Last edited by Makedonetz; 05-27-2010, 12:23 PM.
                      Makedoncite se borat
                      za svoite pravdini!

                      "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
                      - Goce Delchev

                      Comment

                      • Prolet
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 5241

                        #41
                        no Makedonetz, he is Slovenian and now he is in Skopje to teach us how to be Europeans because we dont know. Apparently time is running out and we could risk isolation if we dont reach a compromise with Greece.
                        МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                        Comment

                        • fyrOM
                          Banned
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 2180

                          #42
                          Ebi ti site. The greatest irony is the Turks are our best friends if not our only friends. Everyone has played the Macedonians from pillar to post why expect anything different volkot ne go menuva blanket.

                          Comment

                          • fyrOM
                            Banned
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 2180

                            #43
                            Stupid spell checker error.
                            Should be volkot ne go menuva vlaknoto.

                            Comment

                            • Onur
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 2389

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                              Apparently time is running out and we could risk isolation if we dont reach a compromise with Greece.

                              EU representatives and their supporters said exact same thing to Turkey for 20 years, "Do as we say or you gonna end up alone and isolated in the world".

                              Ofc it was a lie and especially for the last 4-5 years we realized that there are always other opportunities. Now in the latest polls, about %61 of people in Turkey are against to the EU.

                              Yes, Macedonia is geographically in different place but maybe they lie to you as well. Are you absolutely sure that you will be isolated without EU? Did you ever explore other options? I am asking because when EU blindfolded us, we were thinking like you, like we have no other option other than EU.

                              Comment

                              • Frank
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 687

                                #45
                                Are you absolutely sure that you will be isolated
                                without EU? Did you ever explore other options? I am asking because
                                when EU blindfolded us, we were thinking like you, like we have no
                                other option other than EU.





                                Thankyou this is what me and my family
                                every night at the dinner table say. When foriegn investors look at Macedonia as a investment destination, were there is a flow of ideas, experience do you all honestly think being a memer of the club matters much it doesnt as long as the country has the capacitys, trasport routes, and coditions sort after u r right.

                                This Slovenian apoligist comes to our country and flatly doesnt support us he rather sit on the fence and then say you will be an island if u r not part of the club just how does bieng a member of the EU stop a Nation stop the flow of the matual exchange of the dollar at the very end.

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