United Macedonia Diaspora

[Buktop]

Originally Posted by Prolet

SOM, When Pelister stated that he had some concerns about the UMD regarding their stance on the name issue i clearly outlined to Maknews that he should allow him to have his say so that the issue can be resolved once and for all and i was attacked by people and was accused for stirring the pot they even accused me of deliberately trying to make a dispute with the UMD which is not that case as you can see. Look at whats happened now as its like a wild fire spreading and if we dont stop it its going to burn the lot of us.

I agree with you about the questions asked that this is why we have forums so we can all communicate together, you made it perfectly clear that you have no intentions to meet up with Metodija when he will come to Australia in February next year which means that its much easier for these questions to be raised right here on this forum.




Phoenix, Im a little surprised myself however this should have been solved a long time ago be it via a private chat or whatever, now its starting to get out of hand and some nasty insults have taken place. Lets make something clear, you never debated with the UMD regarding their stance on the name issue it was to do with the soft responses they gave out (The so called Diplomatic Responses) in which angered some users myself included and Maknews just got pissed off from there on we both got accused of trying to blacken the UMD simply because their official press releases had no venom in them all, they had was a bit of disappointment (Like if they loose an Ice Hockey game) on a very sensitive issue such as it is with our name and identity.



Thats exactly right SOM, however some responsibility needs to be taken here aswell as people skills. Its pretty stupid to call somebody a Grkoman when the person is doing their very best not to change our name, a Grkoman would be the first to suggest or force us to agree to change our name at all costs in order to get into Nato and EU and we bumped in a few of those in the past havnt we??

Prolet, I am very surprised to see this side of you. I suggest that while Meto is in Australia you take the opportunity to meet with him, otherwise I advise that you stray away from this topic.

Are you planing on meeting with Meto when he comes to Australia?

Are you planing on taking Paul/Pelister's statements at face value or are you planing on actually posing the questions to those who can answer them? You should take any and all statements on any internet forum with a grain of salt. But when you have the chance to answer your questions, specifically with the arrival of Meto in Australia, you should take it. Don't just pass it by, take the opportunity to answer your questions.

Anyone in this thread who has asked questions of UMD and will not seek to attend even a single event where Meto will be present in Australia does not even deserve the right to discourse.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Prolet

......you made it perfectly clear that you have no intentions to meet up with Metodija when he will come to Australia in February next year.......

Where did I make it perfectly clear Prolet? Stop exaggerating and making assumptions on behalf of other people.

[Dimko-piperkata]

YouTube - Meto from UMD

[UMDiaspora.org]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Meto, here are a couple of questions.

Do the UMD support the name negotiations or speak out against the concept of negotiating about the Macedonian identity?

Do the UMD support the Ohrid Agreement or speak out against this 'treaty' that forces Macedonians to accept ethnic Albanian criminal enclaves where the police are not permitted to enter, and ethnic Albanian language and terrorists in the Macedonian parliament?

Or is this something applauded by the UMD?

Please don't make the mistake of referring me to some info.link again. If you are unable to answer, or don't wish to, then simply ignore the questions, that would be a telling answer in itself in any case.

The United Macedonian Diaspora firmly rejects any efforts by persons or entities to rename the Republic of Macedonia. It is our view that the name of a nation state is an inextricable element of its sovereignty. This has been our position since day one and has been consistent throughout all our statements as UMD.

UMD's President Metodija A. Koloski has been pretty vocal on the Framework Agreement, see his op-ed in 2004: http://www.macedonianalliance.com/Ar...0Macedonia.htm Quote "The Ohrid Framework Agreement is an embarrassment upon us as an emerging democratic nation-state and on our territorial integrity." Now, we'll let you all be the judge of UMD's positions.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Easy, the big end of town is all about pats on the back, smiles and lots of handshakes.

This forum attracts a huge readership. It is a worthy instrument for delivering messages to the Macedonian Diaspora and a useful marketing tool for them. It is not unreasonable to reciprocate with public dialogue.

UMD has great respect for the MacedonianTruth.org website and that is why UMD choose to post its announcements on this forum.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Originally Posted by Buktop

Hey don't get me wrong SoM, I have no problem with public debate, just dont think you are fucking entitled to a personal response by UMD.

Are you a member of UMD? If not, why do you think you are entitled to a response? They do not claim to represent all of us, they represent their members and future members.

I am sick and tired of reading through endless posts UMD did this, UMD didnt do that, FUCK, if you guys are so fed up with UMD do something about it, dont fucking cry about it on some forum and then expect something to be done about it. Join up, or attend their meetings and give your opinion. As of right now all you people are doing is GANG BASHING. And yes that is what it is called when a group of people get together and try to see who can hate the UMD the most.

If it is at all possible I would really like to know why 100% of UMD opposition is coming from Australia? I'm not saying all Australians hate UMD, but it seems that all or most opposition is coming from there.

Everyone who e-mails UMD is entitled to a response. Due to the amount of e-mail we get, UMD cannot respond to e-mails immediately but tries to respond as soon as possible.

UMD unpaid interns monitor all Macedonian forums and discussion groups and UMD's public relations team will make the decision whether or not to respond on a forum. UMD cannot respond to every single Forum question as UMD has a lot of work on its plate. We'll try our best but we cannot promise.

[UMDiaspora.org]

The title of this thread is quite misleading. Nobody is picking on UMD, but rather voicing their opinions. UMD Board Members will be visiting almost every community in the U.S., Australia, and Canada in 2010 to make public presentations, take questions, and provide answers. As the schedule becomes clear, it will be posted on the UMD website and all Macedonians and friends of Macedonia are invited to attend these public presentations.

UMD has made its positions quite clear over and over again. The United Macedonian Diaspora firmly rejects any efforts by persons or entities to rename the Republic of Macedonia. It is our view that the name of a nation state is an inextricable element of its sovereignty. UMD's official policy statement on the name and the genocide of Macedonians by Greece will come out in January 2010. Stay tuned.

No matter what people will find ways to manipulate UMD's words and statements. UMD understands this and accepts this. UMD will not sway away from its mission, objectives, and purpose, and will continue fighting for Macedonia and the Macedonian people.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Buktop

Anyone in this thread who has asked questions of UMD and will not seek to attend even a single event where Meto will be present in Australia does not even deserve the right to discourse.

Not everybody can make it to his meetings and events, and I would be disappointed if such conditions now need to met in order to have a 'right to discourse' with Meto and/or the UMD. I trust the 3-4 posts they have just made weren't too painstaking.

I don't for a second believe that the UMD or Meto are anti-Macedonian, but I do believe some poor choice of actions and wording has landed them in this situation. Fear of misinterpretation arises from a message that is undefined and lacks clarity. And let's be honest here, there isn't much to misinterpret with the below clip from ZMR - Meto is clearly advocating for a name other than the Republic of Macedonia for (1) use in international organisations and (2) bilateral use with Greece. Which still leaves the (3) constitutional name for internal use, and for any other country that wishes to do the logical thing. Meto may or may not have intended for it to come out the way it did, but this is a public statement that requires an acceptance of error, not counter-arguments. Buktop, do you agree with this course of action, which would effectively leave Macedonia with three names? I am interested in how you would interpret the same clip.

YouTube - ZMR United Macedonian Diaspora - Macedonia Name

The one that Dimko has just posted has stronger language, this is good, but here is something that concerns me, which was said at the very beginning of the interview:

Obedineta Makedonska Diaspora imavme globalna konferencija vo juni, kai shto golem del, skoro site mislam podnesovme rezolucija, deka Obedineta Makedonska Diaspora ne prifakja promena na ustavnoto ime........

Duri sega cekaje da stignat do takva rezolucija? I ako e 'skoro' site a ne site, toa znaci deka ima clenoi vo organizacijata sho prifakjat promena na imeto, taka? Again, Buktop, I would appreciate your interpretation on this statement.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Not everybody can make it to his meetings and events, and I would be disappointed if such conditions now need to met in order to have a 'right to discourse' with Meto and/or the UMD. I trust the 3-4 posts they have just made weren't too painstaking.

I don't for a second believe that the UMD or Meto are anti-Macedonian, but I do believe some poor choice of actions and wording has landed them in this situation. Fear of misinterpretation arises from a message that is undefined and lacks clarity. And let's be honest here, there isn't much to misinterpret with the below clip from ZMR - Meto is clearly advocating for a name other than the Republic of Macedonia for (1) use in international organisations and (2) bilateral use with Greece. Which still leaves the (3) constitutional name for internal use, and for any other country that wishes to do the logical thing. Meto may or may not have intended for it to come out the way it did, but this is a public statement that requires an acceptance of error, not counter-arguments. Buktop, do you agree with this course of action, which would effectively leave Macedonia with three names? I am interested in how you would interpret the same clip.

YouTube - ZMR United Macedonian Diaspora - Macedonia Name

The one that Dimko has just posted has stronger language, this is good, but here is something that concerns me, which was said at the very beginning of the interview:

Duri sega cekaje da stignat do takva rezolucija? I ako e 'skoro' site a ne site, toa znaci deka ima clenoi vo organizacijata sho prifakjat promena na imeto, taka? Again, Buktop, I would appreciate your interpretation on this statement.

Rezolucijata bese izglasana od strana na Bord na Direktori na OMD. Rezolucijata reflektira soglasnost na mnozinstvoto clenstvo na OMD. Sigurno ima lujge koj mozebi ne bi se soglasile so OMD no rezolucijata e jasna. Linkot e: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/418/1/

OMD ima na nekolku ja ima izjasnato stavot na organizacija kon imeto. Ova rezolucija ja donesena za vreme ne Globalnata Konferencija koj mnozinstvoto na Bord na Direktorite na OMD bea prisutni. Odluki takvi ne se nosat preku internet. OMD nema dilema okolu imeto. Makedonija e imeto na nasata tatkovina i ne privajkame pomena na imeto Makedonija.

[indigen]

Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org

Rezolucijata bese izglasana od strana na Bord na Direktori na OMD. Rezolucijata reflektira soglasnost na mnozinstvoto clenstvo na OMD. Sigurno ima lujge koj mozebi ne bi se soglasile so OMD no rezolucijata e jasna. Linkot e: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/418/1/

OMD ima na nekolku ja ima izjasnato stavot na organizacija kon imeto. Ova rezolucija ja donesena za vreme ne Globalnata Konferencija koj mnozinstvoto na Bord na Direktorite na OMD bea prisutni. Odluki takvi ne se nosat preku internet. OMD nema dilema okolu imeto. Makedonija e imeto na nasata tatkovina i ne privajkame pomena na imeto Makedonija.

Се надевам дека ќе се поучите да делувате со поголема доза на внимание кога се однесувате на суштинските идеолошки прашања поврзани со македонските национали интереси.

Ви препорачувам да ги прочитате следниве редови и длабоко да размислите на темата поврзана со името на државата Македонија.

Тодор Петров:“...Името на државата е Македонија, а уставната референца е “Република”, барем додека ни е такво уставното уредување, и само тоа може да се менува, а не и името на државата, уште еднаш упатуваме јавен апел до Глигоров, во името на македонскиот народ и државата Македонија, во името на сите живи Македонци од сите меридијани на земјината топка, од името на сите мртви и умрени за Македонија, од пред Христос и по Христос, во името на сите можни Богови, веднаш писмено да го извести Генералниот секретар на ООН дека државата Македонија членувањето во ООН и во сите органи на ООН и меѓународни органи, организации и заедници го продолжува безусловно и веднаш со единственото име Македонија, пред кое МОЖЕ да се употребува и уставната референца “Република”...”

Todor Petrov: “... The name of the state is Macedonia, and the constitutional reference is “Republic”, at least until our constitutional arrangement is appropriate, and only this can be changed, and not the name of the state, once again we direct a public appeal to Gligorov, in the name of the Macedonian people and state of Macedonia, in the name of all living Macedonians in all meridians of the globe, on behalf of all the dead and fallen for Macedonia, before Christ and after Christ, in the name of all possible gods, to immediately in writing inform UN Secretary General that the state of Macedonia membership in the UN and all UN bodies and international bodies, organisations and communities is to continue unconditionally and immediately with only the name Macedonia, before which MAY also be used the constitutional reference “Republic”...”


29.10.2009 извор: СМК

Тодор Петров:”...Меѓународно име е државното име Македонија, а името на македонскиот народ и јазик се нераскинливо поврзани со името на државата Македонија. Секоја промена на државното име Македонија значи трајна промена на името на македонскиот народ и јазик, бидејќи по меѓународно право националноста како синоним за државјанство по автоматизам се определува од името на нацијата како синоним за држава...”

29/10/2009 source: WMC

Todor Petrov: “... International name is the state name Macedonia, and the name of the Macedonian people and language are inseparably linked with the name of the state of Macedonia. Any change of state name Macedonia means a permanent change in the name of the Macedonian people and language, because in international law nationality as synonym for citizenship automatically determines the name of the nation as a synonym for state ... “


Тодор Петров: ”...Државата Македонија, господине Глигоров, нема вековно уставно име “Република Македонија” бидејќи името на државата Македонија е постаро од Уставот на Република Македонија, иако денешните гео-политички граници на државата Македонија не се исти со етно-историските граници на Македонија од пред 10 август 1913-та година, а Вашиот 90 годишен живот како и сечиј друг е минорен дел од вековната историја на Македонија.


Todor Petrov: “... The state of Macedonia, Mr Gligorov, does not have a centuries-old constitutional name “Republic of Macedonia” as the name of the state of Macedonia is older than the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia, although today’s geo-political boundaries of the state of Macedonia do not coincide with the ethnic and historical boundaries of Macedonia before August 10, 1913, and Your 90 year-old life, as that of everyone else, is but an insignificant part of the eternal history of Macedonia...”