United Macedonia Diaspora

[Big Bad Sven]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I think the biggest problem with UMD is their absolute failure in truly representing the views of the diaspora, I've been fighting this for a few days with several of the good folk over at Maknews, including the grand poobah himself.

UMD like trading on the terms "united" and "diaspora" to garner credibility for a cause that seems somewhat lost or heading in another direction altogether, certainly not one that has the best interests of Macedonia at its core.

They have what I think is a strange way of representing the diaspora, they seem to have great difficulty in presenting the views of the diaspora without some wishy-washy statement that's lost in ambiguity or they use totally inappropriate language to sugar coat what has been nothing short of an arse-kissing campaign for their landlords in Washington. (refer to the UMD press release where UMD "APPLAUDS" the Macedonian Govts decision to increase troop numbers to Afghanistan)

UMD's failure is in the fact that hardly any Macedonians anywhere support our troops being sent to Afghanistan and sending young men and women into battle on foreign soil should NEVER be "applauded" period!

UMD has put arse-kissing ahead of Macedonian lives, thereby putting American interests ahead of our own...that's not acceptable on any level and no matter how UMD and their followers like to paint it...its not on, either represent the diaspora or reinvent yourselves but don't trade on the terms "united" and "diaspora".

Phoenix you raise some very good pints, and it is rather alarming as to how "happy" and supportive UMD are in sending more macedonian troops to Afghanistan.

However, do you know what UMD's stance is in regards to macedonia recognizing Kosovo? I dont know the answer to this but it wouldn’t surprise if they where "pleased" with that decision.

There is also talk and rumors floating around that when the famous Ohrid agreement was signed UMD claimed it was a huge "success"?

This sounds like an organization that i would not like to be a part of sorry.

[Phoenix]

sven I haven't raised anything new...the problem is that the toll against UMD in the form of grievances keeps rising...

I just refuse to believe that UMD is accurately reflecting the views of the people it allegedly represents.

I hope the "heavy lifters", as the grand poobah over at the other forum calls them aren't posturing for more lucrative lives in Washington after their UMD days are finished...there just seems to be a little bit too much kissing of American butt in UMD press releases for my personal liking...and the smells of hidden agendas is a little bit heady...

Sven, there's a multi-billion dollar lobbying industry kicking around in Washington and the good folk at UMD are right in the mix or have at least their foot partially inside the proverbial door, rubbing shoulders, pressing flesh and NETWORKING but to who's advantage...?

[Pelister]

Phoenix, your moral support as meant alot to me and I am grateful you came along when you did.

Here is what I posted elsewhere.

Dear All,

I am glad that I am generating discussion, because we need to speak out and not be afraid to be critical if we believe it has a basis.

The comment made by the UMD President that Macedonia "has to modify its name" has been addressed by Rogi in this thread, but not to my satisfaction.

I see that I have to explain why I have thought it is necessary to post these UMD statements here, and elsewhere. The statements I have been posting are of members of the UMD board calling for a modified/compromised name.

I should say that several years ago I sent a letter to UMD volunteering any help I could offer this Macedonian organization. I researched and wrote a lengthy paper for Meto which I was very happy to do.

Over a year ago now I noticed that UMD had called for a modified/compromised name in several successive statements it made. I thought at that time that the statements were genuine, authentic and emphatic in terms of where UMD stood on the name issue.

I realised also that if someone does not say something UMD will continue to call for a modified/compromised solution. So I spoke out against them. I am fortunate because I have not had any personal dealings with them, apart from that report I had volunteered to research.

I am not a historian, but I am training to try to be one (that day may never come). What I can tell you is that any objective observer reading those statements made by UMD would say that they constitute a primary source, or "hard evidence" of a position because they are coming from the horses mouth, so to speak.

What concerned me then as much as the statements themsleves was the avoidance and evasion I witnessed, and more recently unfounded personal attacks, for example the very disappointing opinion piece in the latest Macedonian Digest where I am called several things. Could I ask that the UMD statements I have posted also be included in the next issue of the Digest for the sake of balance and fairness?

At the time these statements were made by UMD I was pressed by a need to understand how a small group of the diaspora could call for a modified/compromised "solution" while they were in meetings with our political leaders. I concluded that UMD were expressing the same calls that they had made for a name change which we made in public toward our leaders and politicians in private. I people can see how this was a natural and logical connection to have made.

I have come to realise since then that it is possible that the people at UMD central are still finding their bearings. But on the other hand a small group of young Macedonians intelligent enough to set up an organisation such as this do not make statements to change or modify our name unless they mean it. In other words in my estimate the statements made by UMD were not a hap-hazard, or ad-hoc error, but rather a very carefully considered, deliberate and intelligent call for a name change. I still believe this to be the case.

I would guess here that UMD had not expected Macedonians to criticize them for it. In my estimate I am of the opinion that they would have continued to operate over and above the heads of the Macedonian people (pertaining to speak for them and represent them), in the tradition of so many anti-Macedonian organization of the past. I saw what UMD was saying and doing, and I was certain Macedonians did not want a name change. The parallels to organizations operating in this anti-Macedonian way historically, is in my mind uncanny.

Over a year has passed since those statements were made and in that time UMD have issued statements which contradict their calls for a modified/compromised "solution" to the current negotiations. A historian would identify and emphasize the contradictions in their statements as evidence of a change in policy. If UMD policy was to call for name changes, we could say that that is no longer the case? Or is it? What continues to concern me (deeply) is that a name change is premised on the assumption that these negotiations will in fact continue. UMD know this, and understand its import fully. That is why UMD refuse to issue a public statement rejecting and denouncing outright the negotiations, because a name change hinges on continuation of the negotiation process, and not on whether UMD issue a statement rejecting a name change. This is just coloring. For this reason and others I found UMD statement for a "no name change" to be a dead letter, because a name change hinges on the negotiations.

I believe we need to see UMD's public relation drive to have us "Integrate" into various club in the light of this context. Does its call to have us "Integrate" hinge on the negotiations?

I find such reticence by UMD troubling to say the least. The negotiation process substantially prevents the Greeks and the Macedonians from coming to terms with the truth of the past, the negotiation process hides the violence and it hides the history, and diminishes the significance and the political implications of Macedonian resistance against its invaders of our land, and the dispossesion of it. We ought to keep this in mind when we think about the "negotiations", because political compromise of one form or another will be the outcome. In effect we are compromising ourselves every step of the way.

I am also concerned with the comments made by the vice-president of UMD that our connection to the ancient is a by-product or a result of modern nationalism. This is completely erroneous, but my question is what purpose could UMD have in alleging such a thing? Are we to be silenced by our own, because of the objections of an institution of classicists? Isn't this just a cruel and ill-educated disregard by UMD for our traditions, our songs about the ancient Maceodnians, our connection to them in ballads and folklore which predate modern nationalism? I could come up with more examples of what UMD say about how as Macedonians we should be conducting ourselves (nb., for Integration), and how we should be interpreting our history (nb., for Integration), and how we should be reading our past (nb., for Integration). The suppression of our history and its revision by UMD would only be obvious to a historian, or an anthropoligist, who can spot the political compromise in its position. Are we to accept a historical narrative that depends on the subjective judgement of the international community, or an institution of historians rather than on any congruence with the archival and historical records?? Are we being asked by the vice-president of UMD to forfeit our archival evidence, to be more politically compliant (nb., to "Intergrate") ? I have been following this thread in UMD policy and I am convinced we are being sacrificed to appease the political forces working against us.

The negotiations hinge on a compromise. The Institutions around us are putting pressure on us to compromise, everything. Now UMD are calling for our "Integration" into these Institutions. Isn't support for our integration into a framework system that demands we compromise, also support for a compromise ?

If we cannot be critical of UMD, where is the accountability? Didn't UMD try to go over the heads of Macedonians? If Macedonians find it difficult to look clearly and honestly at what has been said, and what we are being instructed to say about who we are, about our history, and our culture, then someone has to.

In closing we have rights which we are yet to fully exercise at the U.N. I will not subscribe to the premise that we ought to be compliant to be effective politically, but that is precisely what "Integration" means. And I will not subscribe to the premise that we have to work within the framework we have currently tied ourselves to.

Even though Hellenism is in retreat, the racist past still weights heavily on the present and might yet play its final hand in the destruction of our identity. Any hope of reconciliation between Greeks and Macedonians, has been forfeited or hijacked as the term may be by politiics, that is by the current framework, its supporters and our willingness to engage it on the assumption we are being "civilized". The brazen hostility and disrespect displayed to our people, our history and our culture on the one hand, and the ameliorative and benevolent expressions "promised" by the same System on the other, must serve as a dire warning to us all.

Paul (aka Pelister)

Last edited by Paul on 23 Dec 2009 01:32, edited 2 times in total.

[Risto the Great]

I don't feel like being critical of the UMD today.
They should be rewarded for achieving such a profile in such a short time.
However, with this profile comes responsibility and this is what is of concern to people like me and many others.
I hope they can do a great deal more to represent the collective will of the Macedonian Diaspora in 2010.

[makedonche]

Pelister,
Thank you for this detailed and extensively well written post, i concur with your thoughts, my(our) identity is not up for negotiation in any way shape or form. Anybody (Macedonian or not) attempting to gain political mileage/finance/favourable conditions or any type of reward or concession by capitulating to anybody else(institution/country/organisation) will eventually be held accountable by the Macedonian people - sooner or later- there will be no escape!
I interpret what you write as a matter of principle and not a direct attack on any individual or organisation and as such if this principle is broken/tampered with or modified then the party doing the tampering should be brought to all our collective attentions. It is high time we Macedonians made a stand on our identity, for if we do not stand for something we will certainly fall for anything!

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by makedonche

Pelister,
Thank you for this detailed and extensively well written post, i concur with your thoughts, my(our) identity is not up for negotiation in any way shape or form. Anybody (Macedonian or not) attempting to gain political mileage/finance/favourable conditions or any type of reward or concession by capitulating to anybody else(institution/country/organisation) will eventually be held accountable by the Macedonian people - sooner or later- there will be no escape!
I interpret what you write as a matter of principle and not a direct attack on any individual or organisation and as such if this principle is broken/tampered with or modified then the party doing the tampering should be brought to all our collective attentions. It is high time we Macedonians made a stand on our identity, for if we do not stand for something we will certainly fall for anything!

Thankyou Makedonche. The Macedonians are doing the best they can, but there is still strong support in UMD that the negotiations continue the way they are going.

I am just very concerned about something. I am not sure many people see it, but it is staring me in the face.

The brazen hostility and disrespect displayed to our people, our history and our culture on the one hand, and the ameliorative and benevolent expressions "promised" by the same System on the other, must serve as a dire warning to us all.

We are being taken for a ride and many people just don't see it or don't want to see it.

Under no circumstances should we be negotiating our historical identity and under no circumstances should we be engaging this kind of Framework head on.

The UN has violated its own rules. We fight the U.N - we should never have engaged Greece directly, and exposed and opened our identity to tinkering and attack in such a way as we have.

[Prolet]

Pelister, Metodija makes it perfectly clear in these interviews that UMD is against any name change.

As of January they are opening up an Office in Paris to assist those in Brussels well done for their initiative.

http://a1.com.mk/vesti/video.asp?Vid...&VestID=117623

http://kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mI...&eventId=56160

[makedonche]

Originally Posted by Pelister

Thankyou Makedonche. The Macedonians are doing the best they can, but there is still strong support in UMD that the negotiations continue the way they are going.

I am just very concerned about something. I am not sure many people see it, but it is staring me in the face.



We are being taken for a ride and many people just don't see it or don't want to see it.

Under no circumstances should we be negotiating our historical identity and under no circumstances should we be engaging this kind of Framework head on.

The UN has violated its own rules. We fight the U.N - we should never have engaged Greece directly, and exposed and opened our identity to tinkering and attack in such a way as we have.

The immediate actions I see as paramount :-
1/. cease negotiations on name/eu entry
2/. commence proceedings at UN level for redress of wrongs

[makedonche]

Prolet,
I applaud their efforts, as I do with any Macedonian organisation, in fighting for the rights of all macedonians. What I see happening is the breach of a principle - no name or identity negotiation - this breach can be by act or ommission, a simple solution is to release a statement to the effect stating "our name and identity is not up for negotiation/discussion".

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Prolet

Pelister, Metodija makes it perfectly clear in these interviews that UMD is against any name change.

As of January they are opening up an Office in Paris to assist those in Brussels well done for their initiative.

http://a1.com.mk/vesti/video.asp?Vid...&VestID=117623

http://kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mI...&eventId=56160

Of course he does.

He also makes it perfectly clear he is for a name change.

Macedonia has to modify its name

...etc.

Has he changed his mind?

These are intelligent guys. They don't make stupid and careless mistakes. The UMD statements calling for a compromise to our name and modifications to it are not "mistakes" Prolet. There were a succession of such statements. This is what UMD wanted and called for at the highest levels.

You can't just sweep them under the carpet or ignore them.

As I said in my letter, a name change is premised on the negotiations continuing. UMD calling for "no name change" is missing the point. Its a bit of varnish. UMD understands that the key to a modified/compromised solution is the negotiations. This is why UMD will never renounce/reject the negotiations, and ask the Macedonian government to withdraw. The political careers of Meto and Co, depend on the negotiations continuing. The entire existence and efforts of UMD to "Integrate" Macedonia into these clubs hinges on the negotiations continuing. That is why they won't reject them publicly and outright and condemn the Macedonian government for negotiating our identity. UMD would never do that, but that is what is required. How does UMD propose to "Integrate" the Republic of Macedonia, and "Integrate" it into what ? What is the relationship between these negotiations and our "Integration" as UMD envision it ?

Ask yourself this what has UMD actually done to end the negotiations ? Issued any statements ? Organized petitions ? NOTHING. All it does is talk about our "Integration" into political institutions that are negating us.