United Macedonia Diaspora

[BigMak]

While I'm on, METO can you clarify how many members the UMD has as a total, please do not include Facebook and non member affiliates etc.

If you can be more specific and without answering a question with a question please breakdown the membership stats via region or country.

I hope you can be mature about this and provide actual stats and not some wet dream

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

Yes, go ahead.
Besides being an internet webforum, what kind of work does MTO do in comparison to other Macedonian diaspora organisations, and what influence does MTO have? Perhaps this can be discussed in another thread.


-

Yes, go ahead with what?

If you paid any attention, you'll notice that a number of democratically elected leaders of some of the largest Australian Macedonian organisations are regular posters on MTO and their views (along with those of the communities they represent) directly contradict Meto's UMD, as does the MTO consolidated definition of the cause.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

Is this the UMD worldwide membership. If so, how accurate is this number and how many sources can confirm this?

As a founding member, I can confirm that UMD worldwide membership when I left in early 2008 was 80. Rogi, who was a Board Member until early this year I think, confirmed that UMD's worldwide membership was only 300.

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Oh please, like I need to 'dodge' your questions, your rationale to support the AMHRC and your acceptance that all has 'been cleared' from the UMD's side doesn't correlate, but then again, why should it, all of you UMD apologists are fumbling and contradicting characters.

If you didn't dodge my questions, why not answer them in the first place instead of selectively choosing your responses?

And you keep failing to even answer the first question with a simple yes or no - Do you have a problem that I support AMHRC campaign?

Negative - there are no contradictions as you claim. If so, I'd like you to provide factual back-up, can you do that? - The real issue here is that your world doesn't accept the fact that people can judge each action taken by an organisation separately. That means organisations are seldom perfect regardless of what they do. Mistakes and differences of opinion will most likely always be there.

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Regarding your second question, what's your point?

The point is that members or non-members opinions, expectations or wishes, may not always be in-line with the work or decisions made by organisations at certain point in time. Given this reality, one should be able to judge each action taken by an organisation separately. That means some decisions may be criticized from the membership/non-members without being labeled as "contradicting characters".

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Why is it that every UMD apologist like yourself, Buktop and the small handful of morons that have visited the MTO seem to know exactly why and how the UMD operate?

I didn't know I was a UMD apologist. What I do know is that I put questions to any organisation or individual who makes decisions or statements that I find interesting. Let me take this in plain english for you: Regardless of what they do, what they stand for, good or bad, I will reserve the individual rigth to question anything. Provided that they are willing to answer.

You seem to suggest that I know exactly why and how the UMD operate. Could you provide some example or factual back-up for your claim?

Secondly, is your role as admin to slander people who come to MTO?
In this thread, you are have taken this role exclusively. No other individual has taken this road.

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Your third question is irrelevant, because that should be the norm for every situation, and not just when you see it fit.

Negative - its highly relevant in this case, especially for you. If you accept it as "norm", then what's your problem with people who praise good actions/decisions made, while at the same time question/criticize the very same organisation?

You seem to be stuck in a world where individuals cannot criticize the very same organisation that is also doing good things. If they do, you call them "contradicting characters", or "UMD apologists".

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

You can express whatever view you like, but your current one is the wrong one, and you will be reminded of this fact each time somebody posts here.

Its irrelevant whether someone agrees with me or not when I question certain arguments in this thread. I'm not dependent on others to agree with me, are you? - You will remind me of my supposedly wrongsided opinion each time somebody posts here. That's mature and constructive.

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Again, has it clicked in your head why everybody is saying and thinking the opposite to yourself?

Besides your fellow admins - no not really.
Are you looking to advocate constructive discussions where different set of opinions are welcomed, or are you advocating some totalitarian way of style where everyone must have the same opinion?

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

By the way, how did Meto convince you that all has 'been cleared'?

Considering your statement below you don't deserve an answer. First you don't give a shit, now you do - You said something about "fumbling and contradicting characters" before.


SoM said:
I couldn't give a shit if Meto sent you a few 'feel-good' PM's to have another sheep convinced that all has 'been cleared'



-------------

Lastly,

Do you mind telling me what you do for living, and what education level you hold? If you don't mind of course.



-

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Are you absolutely comfortable making the comparison between a government and UMD? Is everything alright back home mate?

Call me crazy but "normal" Macedonians have not advocated a name change publicly then pretend they never said it.

The point is, whichever organised structure, be it governments or NGO's etc, there will be decisions made not representing 100% of the membership/non-members.

Ok, but what is the "normal Macedonian belief system"? I have never heard of this system before. You talked about this, can you expand. Besides whatever someone has advocated or not.


--

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Thanks for agreeing that they did indeed take the path of less risk.

What is there to thank for Risto. Its a reasonable conclusion that UMD choose to exclude others partly because of its own presence, its own work being done, and less risk for competition. In the end, what matters is how the survey is being received and how accurate the data will be for its intended purpose.

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Ask them and see how candid their response will be.

I have seen others ask, and I don't expect UMD to reveal how many members they have. This could be a policy of not divulging such information. Which I could understand, and other organisations could have similar policies. So its not nessesarily a question of how "candid" they (UMD) are.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

I have seen others ask, and I don't expect UMD to reveal how many members they have. This could be a policy of not divulging such information. Which I could understand, and other organisations could have similar policies. So its not nessesarily a question of how "candid" they (UMD) are.

It's not that easy or convenient to bury such questions regarding UMD's membership, largely on the basis that UMD heavily promote their organization as the "largest" representative of the Macedonian diaspora.

I don't see how you can accept such claims that are used to build ones credibility, unless of course you're trying to defend that 'credibility' at all costs.

Unfortunately, its an issue about transparency or lack thereof...

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

The point is, whichever organised structure, be it governments or NGO's etc, there will be decisions made not representing 100% of the membership/non-members.

Ok, but what is the "normal Macedonian belief system"? I have never heard of this system before. You talked about this, can you expand. Besides whatever someone has advocated or not.


--

Stop playing stupid...
nobody expects 100% convergence of ideas between an organization and its membership...BUT what normal people deserve is that an organization represents the majority of their members views...

Perhaps UMD's membership is all for prefixes, suffixes, questionable alliances, a lack of transparency, kissing American butt, impotent press releases and delusions of grandeur...

[julie]

CT The point is that members or non-members opinions, expectations or wishes, may not always be in-line with the work or decisions made by organisations at certain point in time. Given this reality, one should be able to judge each action taken by an organisation separately. That means some decisions may be criticized from the membership/non-members without being labeled as "contradicting characters".


1. Do you support name negotiations?
I dont.
Macedonia, period

2. Do you support acronyms for entry to EU and NATO
I dont


I don't like my people used as canon fodder for yankee doodle

Nor is it in Macedonia's interests to enter the EU, countries that have gained entry into the big boys club are now faced with crippling debt to pay out Greece. That is disgusting