United Macedonia Diaspora

[Pelister]

When are UMD going to denounce these negotiations, and start taking action to end them?

[osiris]

in their last post about the glorious leaders stint down under they also claim that they dont have a boss that the money that supports their activities is all membership based i guess the funds from some turkish group are used strictly for coffees drunk at starbucks.

prolet you make me laugh mate either you are very gullible or just a shit stirrer or maybe both.

[Prolet]

Osiris, Metodija was asked a direct question and he gave a direct answer. Im not in UMD so how am i suppose to know the real figure? I gave him the benefit of the doubt and since Rogi has more information then i do then im happy to take his word for it but i did back my claim up and i didnt simply make up the 4000 figure.

Like i said earlier, 4000 people is hardly a figure in a community within USA which is a country of 300 million people let alone anywhere else. Surly if you count all of North America,EU and Eastern Europe plus Australia and New Zealand you wouldnt dispute the 4000 figure this is ofcourse if you have nothing to do with the UMD in anyway or know just the basics of the organization.

[TrueMacedonian]

Just another brid-brained Albanian who can't even walk and chew gum at the same time. Everyone should spread his words around so we can show the world what kind of people live in that toilet bowl state called modern "greece".

[Grotius]

Prolet,

You have just explained precisely how the boy wonder can be so disingenious, and usually is. He plays on perceptions rather than reality. He spews it out and fools like you swallow it. What does it taste like? Prolet, keep making me laugh.

[Prolet]

Grotius, When Metodija is asked a direct question ie How many members do you have and his answer is 4000 how would you interpret that?

[Grotius]

Prolet,

Keep swallowing: UMD is the leading Macedonian bullshit artist organisation in the universe, I am the King of Tonga, pigs can swim underwater, the UN is about to abolish the nation-state system and climate-change is a Greek conspiracy. There you go Prolet, direct statements, it must all be true. Of course, I can't account for the Goce Delchev bit!

another question, can there really be 4,000 Macedonians who support a name change, or at least negotiations over a name change, and integration into so-called western democratic institutions, even at the cost of our identity and integrity? I'll ask again Prolet, are you one of these people or just the resident fool?

SpolajTi nashio.

[Prolet]

Grotius, You know where i stand with the name issue, i would never change it. My point is that we need an organization like the UMD, i had this discussion with SOM i told him we either back the UMD or make a rival group which is similar to the UMD either way we need an organization like this.

You're right "Sve sto leta ne se jadi" but at the same time you would think a president of any organization would have a rough idea of how many members there are in their organization. If he had of said 40,000 i wouldnt buy it but 4000 world wide is not exactly a large figure.

[Vangelovski]

Prolet, 4,000 paid members for a Macedonian organisation is massive.

UMD has overstated its influence many times and overstating its membership is one way to try and protray itself as more influential than it really is.

This isn't the first time UMD has disengeniously played with numbers. In the past, it has carried out letter/email campaigns and attempted to portray their ability to mobilse Macedonians as ridiculously larger than it actually is by stating how many emails were sent (i.e., the number of people who signed an email multiplied by the number of MP's who recieved it) rather than how many people actually signed an email/letter.

Overstating their influence, and being disengenious (and sometimes completely dishonest) about is becoming the norm for UMD.

[Pelister]

How frustrating. I just spent alot of time putting down my thoughts, and accidently hit the escape button. Here I go again.

A bit of background on the "Genocide" issue.

In 1919 the League of Nations was formed, and adopted the principle of self-determination. In 1948 a guy called Raphael Lemkin defined 'Genocide'. His defintion was adopted by the United Nations.

The problem with these events is that they happened some time AFTER much of the Greek atrocities, dispossession, killing and devastration had happened. And as we have seen, both principles have done absolutely nothing for us. Both have proven to be a dead letter, and there are good reasons for that, which I won't go into in any detail. Basically, the principle of self-determination has been subordinate to the rights of the conqueror which has always been favored by international law. IL is designed to maintain the status quo - there is nothing it can do to prevent a war, regardless of whether its has been provoked or not. The U.N for example has violated its own articles by admitting Macedonia by the name FYROM. On the issue of 'Genocide' unless it can be clearly proven to have been systematic, ubiquitous ...etc, appeals to Lefties but has no political currency.

If there had been an international criminal court all those years ago, perhaps the New Greek could have been held to account for their crimes.

There are other obstacles. The facts strongly suggest a conspiratorial agenda or "cover up" in the treatment of the native Macedonians by Greece and by Europe, over the last century. There is a growing database of evidence where Britian, Europe, the Ottomans and even the U.S have insisted on erasing any evidence of a Macedonian presence, and issuing instruction not to name them. A policy of "Don't Name Them" continues today. But there can be no doubt from our point of view that Greek committed terrible crimes against us, dipossesed us and drove us out. The problem is essentially this. The New Greek will not dispute that he once committed terrible crimes - they will do this willingly. In fact its already there in Greek historiography. What they dispute is the identity of the victim.

There are other obstacles. Europe! Greece could not have treated its native Macedonians so poorly without the backing of Europe. It was Europe that would oversee various "Treaties" and "Protocols" which did two things; one, classified the people being exchanged as Bulgarians/Greeks, and two; suggested the exchange was in fact voluntary. The question of "Voluntary" movement. Enter now the second key point to the Greek thesis. If people can be shown to go 'voluntary' there is no case for genocide. The distortion and the misrepresentation had been legitimized by Europe - the overseer in this case. It is worth mentioning that Europe had known about the existence of the Macedonians. There were numerous petititions to Queen Victory (FO 96/216; there were thousands of petitions to the League of Nations "Minorities Committee" ...etc). Europe made a deliberate and conscious choice to deny us. The instructions the British gave to the Serbians and Greeks in 1925 to deny us, are enligtening. This "Don't Name Them" policy continues.

I don't believe people truly realize the scope, scale, and duration of atrocities committed against us over the last century. There are barely no contributions to this area of research and study. The implications of these events must be considered in their true light if an account or a case is to be made for Genocide.