United Macedonia Diaspora

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Thanks for sharing that with us borce...

I just wonder how far beyond the internet community does an awareness of UMD actually extend amongst the wider Macedonian population...most people agree that Meto is a polished performer on the stage and certainly not everything about them can be considered bad or evil but the fact that they have let themselves down with some very public "mistakes" is disturbing and perhaps has diminished their 'good' work overall...?

True.

There are some qualities about Meto and UMD that I can't help admire, but it is everything else that is lacking, specifically their very soft position (in some cases defence of) various anti-Macedonian processes.

I spoke to Meto and made my case to him why we should stop negotiating. He told me that we were not a country before 1944. So I made the case to him why we were, I talked about Macedonian society as the local level, our social structures and laws, our traditions ...etc.

Alexandrov wrote:
We obviously have shared sentiments about the politics of successive Macedonian Governments. We also seem to share certain concerns about UMD policy. However, I think that the almost obsessive preoccupation on this and another forum with criticism of UMD is getting a little unhealthy for the cause.

UMD is not a government that coercively collects taxes from the Macedonian people and should therefore account to them. It is just a non-government organization that pursues objectives determined by its Board, which in turn is voluntarily supported by its members. If somebody doesn't like its policies and actions, the constructive way to channel that dissatisfaction is to constructively interact with its leadership in the hope of influencing its future direction and/or to just focus on supporting more favorable organizations. Sure, if we feel that the UMD or anybody else has misrepresented the Macedonians in the diaspora in some significant way, we can point that out in public, but let's not get too preoccupied with somebody having misrepresented our views. Isn't it better if we focus instead on improving the way we convey and act on our views ourselves?

In some ways Alexandrov is right.

We ought to find better ways of expresing our dissatisfaction, but how are we to do that? UMD made an effort to censor all criticism of its organization, i.e., legitimate criticism I might at - at Maknews. I don't think Alexandrov has any idea who UMD are representing in meetings with our leaders all over the world. Or has he considered that UMD are in fact in meetings with our leaders, our politicians and big wigs? I would certainly like to know what they are saying. Well, what are they saying? We can only guess, or take their word for it. What we know from public statements made by UMD is that they defend the talks, the Interim Accord, among other anti-Macedonian processes and institutions. Two or three threads criticising UMD is far from being 'obsessive' - which was precisely the case made by UMD at Maknews before Maknews began banning.

If our criticisms are legitimate (I believe they are, after all the evidence comes from UMD statements), voicing it and expressing it can only be a benefit.

My knowledge of the Interim Accord was poor, but I got to know a little more about it and about UMD's position on these forums, which allowed me to make a case for change face-to-face with Meto a few weeks ago.

[Prolet]

There are some qualities about Meto and UMD that I can't help admire, but it is everything else that is lacking, specifically their very soft position (in some cases defence of) various anti-Macedonian processes.

This is exactly why we need people like Boris Zmejkovski and Mane Jakovlevski to be mentors and not allow our people to be pushed around. We do need to toughen up our stance thats for sure

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Prolet

This is exactly why we need people like Boris Zmejkovski and Mane Jakovlevski to be mentors and not allow our people to be pushed around. We do need to toughen up our stance thats for sure

At the end of the day the reality is that UMD have to some degree failed the diaspora and this can't be compensated by Meto's stagecraft or "potential" as an activist...lets not lose sight of the fact that serious "mistakes" have been made that shouldn't be readily swept under the carpet...

[Bill77]

I am asuming the Melbourne meeting is still on tomorrow, Any one from MTO attending?

[aleksandrov]

Originally Posted by Pelister

...

We ought to find better ways of expresing our dissatisfaction, but how are we to do that? UMD made an effort to censor all criticism of its organization, i.e., legitimate criticism I might at - at Maknews. ...

Maknews certainly did no favors to UMD with the ednoumie-style censorship. All Maknews achieved by that was to increase suspicion about who UMD's leadership is really accountable to - if not the support base it gained through internet marketing and networking, and who is really determining UMD's policies, given that its office-bearers appeared incapable or unwilling to substantiate and defend them. The impression that UMD's office-bearers condoned or maybe even colluded in Maknews' censorship has made things even worse.

I don't think Alexandrov has any idea who UMD are representing in meetings with our leaders all over the world.

Who - apart from the people taking part in those meetings - does? And how much of an idea do any of us have about private representations that are made by other Macedonian organizations - apart from any that we might be leading ourselves?

Two or three threads criticising UMD is far from being 'obsessive' - which was precisely the case made by UMD at Maknews before Maknews began banning.

Things have gone well beyond two or three threads criticizing the UMD. Criticisms of the UMD have taken up so much discussion time and space that an outsider might be excused for thinking the organization is a de facto Government of Macedonia. Threads with very specific policy discussion topics are being hijacked by repetitive criticisms of UMD that are only remotely related to the topic, if at all. I wonder how many of the fiery UMD critics realize that they might actually be doing the leadership of that organization a service, by making it appear as a victim of armchair warriors and the Tall Poppy Syndrome?

The biggest problem I see with the direction that UMD criticisms and responses to such criticisms are taking is the increasingly personal and offensive tone. In my experience, when policy disagreements among community activists and commentators are allowed to turn into personal animosity, the personal animosity tends to take precedence over and often outlive the policy disagreements. The obvious problem there is that when the adversaries eventually bridge the policy gap, they are unable to start working together in shared policy directions because of the ongoing personal animosity.

[aleksandrov]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

At the end of the day the reality is that UMD have to some degree failed the diaspora and this can't be compensated by Meto's stagecraft or "potential" as an activist...lets not lose sight of the fact that serious "mistakes" have been made that shouldn't be readily swept under the carpet...

I think I have made my views about what I see as the UMD's critical policy failures pretty clear. I am by no means suggesting that they be swept under the carpet. I am simply suggesting that we should give the UMD leadership space to revise what we see as fundamentally flawed or dangerous policy directions, and focus on leading by example, rather than just forcing them to dig bigger trenches.

[osiris]

alexandrov whats happening mate you are getting soft in your young age. i think umds leadership should earn back some respect and kudos through their deeds and words, until then criticsm is good.

let it also be said there a good patriots within umds membership

i would like to see umd hold elections asap. i also would like to know what is the umds relationship with metos political buddies in washington.

[osiris]

looking forward to seeing you in march and you make good points. its great to see young people involved and we should cut them some slack, but they are on notice now as is every macedonian organisation from our government down.

[Prolet]

Hahahaha

I think this is the first time Aleksandrov has laughed, i think he has soften up a bit Osiris i noticed myself but i guess thats not such a bad thing after all, maybe he'll crack a few more jokes and even join our footy tipping competition LOL

[aleksandrov]

Originally Posted by Prolet

Hahahaha

I think this is the first time Aleksandrov has laughed, i think he has soften up a bit Osiris i noticed myself but i guess thats not such a bad thing after all, maybe he'll crack a few more jokes and even join our footy tipping competition LOL

I laugh at you all the time, Prolet. I just do it quietly to avoid offending you.