United Macedonia Diaspora - Page 224

Vangelovski · 02-08-2010, 10:34 PM

Prolet, statements in support of a name change, the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, in my view, are anti-Macedonian - and that is my "issue" with UMD.

I'm holding you "hostage"? How so?

Risto the Great · 02-08-2010, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogi

I just want to summarise, because it is becoming a little confusing. So what we have is...

1. UMD does not support any name change whatsoever.

2. The President and public figure of UMD has reaffirmed support for a name change to 'Democratic'.

3. UMD's President defines a name change as a change in Macedonia's Constitution, not the name used in the United Nations*

These statements are creating a lot of confusion, albeit not to those who are not so naive.

* In the video of the Adelaide forum, Meto is recorded as saying that 'Democratic' may be acceptable for the EU, NATO and United Nations 'only' (definition of name change).

I have been saying for nearly 2 years now that the way a name change will eventually be 'sold' to the Macedonian people is by 'selling' it as a replacement of 'fYROM' and not as a name change (because the Constitutional name won't change).

This play on the definition of what a name change really means, is but a trick and a way to dupe the Macedonian people into remaining subservient and apathetic.

Totally agree.

Volk · 02-08-2010, 10:56 PM

Hey SOM, I am in Adelaide and did attend the conference.

I can give an unbiased break down of the event, unlike other people.

I thought the initial speech was a bit of a sell, basically trying to sell UMD. Having said that, it was very informative, Meto went into great detail on how the organisation works and what it strives to achieve.

Question time later gave the community an opportunity to vent somewhat. Quite frankly what I saw was disturbing, desperate people looking for a leader.

Unfortunatly Risto's questions/ concerns where not allowed to run their course, although Meto did seem willing and even wanted to discuss them.

I also had a chance to talk to Meto for a considerable amount of time.
My impressions of him were very good, we discussed all issues and the main point is that he is fully focused on our cause, and in my opinion the most active person in the Diaspora. (from my knowledge)

I believe there is a small culture clash between the Australian and US mannerisms regarding Macedonia, Australians being much more confrontational. This stems from the levels of racism we have had to endure, and the latest comments from Rann simply back that up.

As for the Democratic statement, I think it's being blown way out of proportion. UMD is not pushing for this solution, nor is it a realistic solution. Talking about it is simply a waste of time, everyone has moved on but I will give you my thoughts since you asked.

With a name like Democratic, or Holy, or any other BS, the country is still named Macedonia. Unlike Northern ect, keeping this in mind that this kind of prefix was to replace FYROM, not our constitutional name.

If it meant that we had to accept Democratic in order to achieve our strategic goals; most important being maintaining national identity, ethnicity, language, ALL of history, recognition by greece and bulgaria and ending the oppression then I think its a pill we could ultimately swallow to end the genocide on our people.

Only if all of the above was achieved from it and nothing less.

Prolet · 02-08-2010, 10:56 PM

SOM, Its up to everybody to believe what they like, its one thing to say something its another actually doing it. When i see the UMD attempting to try and do something that is against our cause this is when i will start with the head hunting as you call it. I personally defended Pelister on the Maknews forum and i got into Maknews's bad books he is pissed off with me but i cant change my views and i was probably the first to defend Pelister not that i fully support his views but the fact that i do share some of his concerns. I also believe in Freedom of Speech without personal attacks so no SOM i dont blame you for thinking that way you have your views and i respect that however with all this bickering and talking its not going to get us very far thats all.

Here is the reality about the UMD

Its a small organization

Its purpose is for lobbying around the world

They have pretty much no political power whats so ever in Macedonia

They are not a well founded organization they had to do fund raisers to host "A Name is a Name" in North America. Thats the reality.

Vangelovski, While you have personal issues with the UMD you are making karanici with those who support the UMD and we cant focus on other things like how justice will be done towards our people who were made worthless by the SA Premier. I told you that i have some concerns myself about the UMD and i asked A Mitreski some questions and so forth instead of accusing eachother of who said what we should be looking for the future and see what we can do next, so my advise is to have a proper chat with A Mitreski and Metodija and have a proper civil discussion like gentlemen, mistakes where made and its time to clear them up is that so difficult?? The UMD will learn that 5 people dont decide the fate of the Millions of Macedonians in the Diaspora and i think they will also agree with that.

Vangelovski · 02-08-2010, 11:01 PM

Prolet,

What exactly do you think I was doing (when you advise me to hold "propper" discussions with Meto and Aleks) the entire time I was with UMD?

Prolet · 02-08-2010, 11:07 PM

Well Said Volk

However its wishful thinking and we all know it, the Democratic name is nothing it was a name that was rejected outright its never been on the agenda at all. We will never have good relations with our neighbors unless we decide to give up our name,identity,culture,language etc etc

Blaming eachother for this will get us nowhere, we need to be together and stick together.

Risto the Great · 02-08-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prolet

Here is the reality about the UMD

Its purpose is for lobbying around the world

Prolet, what are they lobbying?
If I got out the front of a forum and said "People say to me ... what is the big deal if we use Democratic ... I say not in my world ... it is not my right to degrade the memory of my ancestors and every Macedonian person on the planet"

I don't say "... well .... it was a mistake to think like that but you know, if it gets us in, then we would be better off ... so ... even if I personally don't like it... well ... we really have to respect the wishes of the republic of Macedonia ... so ... you know ... maybe."

Which one gets the votes Prolet? Be honest.

Risto the Great · 02-08-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volk

If it meant that we had to accept Democratic in order to achieve our strategic goals; most important being maintaining national identity, ethnicity, language, ALL of history, recognition by greece and bulgaria and ending the oppression then I think its a pill we could ultimately swallow to end the genocide on our people.

Ok, you are back there then. A name change for NATO, EU, UN again. I thought you put that behind you.

TrueMacedonian · 02-08-2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

In recent months, Albanians had an uproar over the Macedonian Encyclopaedia and disputed a number of articles that suggested Albanians arrived in Macedonia during the 16th century, that the US supported NLA forces and that Ali Ahmeti may be guilty of war crimes.

UMD’s response to this was as follows:

“We understand the frustrations that ethnic Albanians feel regarding the mistakes contained within the Macedonian Encyclopedia. However, we remind everyone and Mr. Krasniqi that MANU is reviewing and has promised to correct these mistakes, with input from well-regarded Albanian-Macedonian academics,” said UMD Director of Public Policy, Boban Jovanovski”.

UMD Media Release
24 September 2009
http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/432/1/

I have a question regarding this encyclopedia and not just towards Vangelovski but this question is for everyone. Do any of you approve of the content in the first encyclopedia and the un-professionalism within this un-revised version? I just want to clarify what people are defending here concerning this article.

fyrOM · 02-08-2010, 11:18 PM

are the umd suggesting democratic republic of macedonia is a name the greeks or west would accept. is there really any difference to the current name. its starting to sound like federal republic of germany vs german democratic republic ie a play on words.
i think democratic or socialist in front only is a declaration on your voting and or social structure. would the name democratic republic of macedonia preclude anyone else from later using the name republic of macedonia.

View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes	2	4.35%
No	44	95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

02-08-2010, 10:34 PM	#2231
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Prolet, statements in support of a name change, the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, in my view, are anti-Macedonian - and that is my "issue" with UMD. I'm holding you "hostage"? How so? __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

02-08-2010, 10:56 PM	#2233
Volk Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 894	Hey SOM, I am in Adelaide and did attend the conference. I can give an unbiased break down of the event, unlike other people. I thought the initial speech was a bit of a sell, basically trying to sell UMD. Having said that, it was very informative, Meto went into great detail on how the organisation works and what it strives to achieve. Question time later gave the community an opportunity to vent somewhat. Quite frankly what I saw was disturbing, desperate people looking for a leader. Unfortunatly Risto's questions/ concerns where not allowed to run their course, although Meto did seem willing and even wanted to discuss them. I also had a chance to talk to Meto for a considerable amount of time. My impressions of him were very good, we discussed all issues and the main point is that he is fully focused on our cause, and in my opinion the most active person in the Diaspora. (from my knowledge) I believe there is a small culture clash between the Australian and US mannerisms regarding Macedonia, Australians being much more confrontational. This stems from the levels of racism we have had to endure, and the latest comments from Rann simply back that up. As for the Democratic statement, I think it's being blown way out of proportion. UMD is not pushing for this solution, nor is it a realistic solution. Talking about it is simply a waste of time, everyone has moved on but I will give you my thoughts since you asked. With a name like Democratic, or Holy, or any other BS, the country is still named Macedonia. Unlike Northern ect, keeping this in mind that this kind of prefix was to replace FYROM, not our constitutional name. If it meant that we had to accept Democratic in order to achieve our strategic goals; most important being maintaining national identity, ethnicity, language, ALL of history, recognition by greece and bulgaria and ending the oppression then I think its a pill we could ultimately swallow to end the genocide on our people. Only if all of the above was achieved from it and nothing less. __________________ Makedonija vo Srce

02-08-2010, 11:01 PM	#2235
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Prolet, What exactly do you think I was doing (when you advise me to hold "propper" discussions with Meto and Aleks) the entire time I was with UMD? __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

02-08-2010, 10:56 PM	#2234
Prolet Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,241	SOM, Its up to everybody to believe what they like, its one thing to say something its another actually doing it. When i see the UMD attempting to try and do something that is against our cause this is when i will start with the head hunting as you call it. I personally defended Pelister on the Maknews forum and i got into Maknews's bad books he is pissed off with me but i cant change my views and i was probably the first to defend Pelister not that i fully support his views but the fact that i do share some of his concerns. I also believe in Freedom of Speech without personal attacks so no SOM i dont blame you for thinking that way you have your views and i respect that however with all this bickering and talking its not going to get us very far thats all. Here is the reality about the UMD Its a small organization Its purpose is for lobbying around the world They have pretty much no political power whats so ever in Macedonia They are not a well founded organization they had to do fund raisers to host "A Name is a Name" in North America. Thats the reality. Vangelovski, While you have personal issues with the UMD you are making karanici with those who support the UMD and we cant focus on other things like how justice will be done towards our people who were made worthless by the SA Premier. I told you that i have some concerns myself about the UMD and i asked A Mitreski some questions and so forth instead of accusing eachother of who said what we should be looking for the future and see what we can do next, so my advise is to have a proper chat with A Mitreski and Metodija and have a proper civil discussion like gentlemen, mistakes where made and its time to clear them up is that so difficult?? The UMD will learn that 5 people dont decide the fate of the Millions of Macedonians in the Diaspora and i think they will also agree with that.

02-08-2010, 11:07 PM	#2236
Prolet Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,241	Well Said Volk However its wishful thinking and we all know it, the Democratic name is nothing it was a name that was rejected outright its never been on the agenda at all. We will never have good relations with our neighbors unless we decide to give up our name,identity,culture,language etc etc Blaming eachother for this will get us nowhere, we need to be together and stick together.

02-08-2010, 11:18 PM	#2240
fyrOM Banned Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,180	are the umd suggesting democratic republic of macedonia is a name the greeks or west would accept. is there really any difference to the current name. its starting to sound like federal republic of germany vs german democratic republic ie a play on words. i think democratic or socialist in front only is a declaration on your voting and or social structure. would the name democratic republic of macedonia preclude anyone else from later using the name republic of macedonia.

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