United Macedonia Diaspora

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Prolet

SOM, A sto misles Grcine sto pravat?? Identitetine kako na nashite chlenovi im gi objavuvaja?? Jas ne velam da se zatvorime samo da pazime sto zborvame tuka, oti drugite ne snimat mozi i asio gleda od kaj znajme?

The whole 'forum' and Meto's schedule have been made public for a while now. Are you implying that 'Slav' Kostoff cut RtG off because somebody would get information on us? Ridiculous. He cut off RtG because he knew that RtG would ask the questions that Meto would have trouble with, you know, the real questions about UMD's integrity. Prolet, you are starting to remind me of an overly superstitious old lady, like I said before, ease up your scare-mongering, nobody here was born yesterday, we know what you are saying and nobody is asking for details that cannot be readily accessed through public and community records in any case. The information for Macedonian eyes only will be for Macedonian eyes only, nobody is spilling any beans here.

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Homer MakeDonski

Draw to be put forward
YouTube - Makedonija 2001 - Bitkata za aracinovo Eve ja vistinata
Indeed all *Srankovisti hangers-on are traitors to the Macedonian cause.

Hoping that is UMD state you are pointing is about political demagogy only , and your criticism will have valuable results

"UMD" [Tuesday, 25 August 2009]:"...Macedonia actually is the only state in the region where ethnic minorities are granted the same status as the majority demographic in the state. The 2001 Framework Agreement ended Macedonia’s civil conflict and stipulated that Macedonia’s state policy towards minorities would be among the most liberal in the region...."

It is clear the FA is used by "UMD" to promote Macedonia in a "positive" light and thus is an endorsement of it. Furthermore, it is a JUSTIFICATION (legitimization) of the UCK (and their backers) terrorist activities and an exoneration of the TRAITORS, e.g. Boris Trajkovski, Branko Crvenkovski, LjuBcho Georgievski and Co., who signed and enacted into law (via amendments to the Constitution/Ustav) the CAPITUALTIONIST 2001 Framework Agreement.

[Prolet]

No SOM, Risto asked legitimate questions im talking about this forum not face to face talk.

You keep mentioning this Slav guy who is he and what does he stand for?? Is he related to Hari Kostov by any chance? I agree that nobody is spilling beans here i just dont want our opposition to get their hands on our information.

[MP_MK]

Originally Posted by maslinka

Some constructive criticism for you MP_MK:

Given that you have what appears to be indepth knowledge (designing?) the media campaign, for future article, media statements, TV spots etc, might it be the strongest foot forward for the community if the AMHRC and UMD's efforts are represented together and that UMD are not solely thrust into the limelight.....to be fair, isn't it in all of our interests that AMHRC are presented at least equally with UMD as an NGO in Australia doing something about this, not just UMD as a Washington based organisation.

I have to say that AMHRC's omission was a pretty basic mistake and apparent to all. Don't get me wrong, I think the 'international' angle is good, but the picture is not complete. Lets face it, it will be left to the AMHRC (not UMD) to try to hold Rann accountable - they need the financial support for activities that affect our community and hence the exposure.

MP_MP - I look forward to the fruits of your labour over the next little while. It will be nice to see this issue brought to the attention of responsible media. Can you let us know in advance of when we can expect things to come out?

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THE COMMUNITY SHOULD BE MADE AWARE THAT THE AMHRC FUNDED BY ITS MEMBERS, WILL FIGHT THIS. THEY NEED THE MONEY.

I agree Maslinka.

I was not responsible for that media piece transpiring.

Yes I can and will, as media pieces are secured moving forward.

[El Bre]

I may be missing the forest for the trees here, and I'll probably be tarred and feathered for asking this, but, what do you envision the problems with the prefixes democratic or independent being?

[Risto the Great]

EB, I have the tar and feathers waiting for you.
The fundamental problem is people are telling us how we should name ourselves. Think it through and tell me if Macedonia can stand shoulder to shoulder with nations that insist on treating us this way. If we accept this, we deserve everything else they mock us with.

Further, I cannot be Macedonian from where my people come from. It simply does not work and will only become more difficult as the name is something further from Macedonian. As a friend of mine stated .... "I am a socialist .... why would I want to be a Democratic Macedonian!".

I would much prefer "Sexy Macedonian" than any of the UMD suggestions, but ultimately I only want "Macedonian".

[El Bre]

Thanks RtG. There is no doubt that we find ourselves in a situation that, in this day and age, no nation deserves to be in, but, I fail to see how these appendages can be construed as treacherous for neither implies any racial or geographical meaning.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by El Bre

I fail to see how these appendages can be construed as treacherous for neither implies any racial or geographical meaning.

I thought RtG's response covered on that:

The fundamental problem is people are telling us how we should name ourselves. Think it through and tell me if Macedonia can stand shoulder to shoulder with nations that insist on treating us this way. If we accept this, we deserve everything else they mock us with.

Have you thought about this in more depth El Bre? If it is 'democratic' at the UN, what is it at the world cup, or some other international competition, or an event in Greece or a state sympathetic to Greek racists? You expect our people to have three jersey's and name tags handy?

[aleksandrov]

Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org

Mr. Vangelovski, are you referring to The Australian advertisement? We suggest you get your facts straight before spreading outright lies and false allegations about UMD. UMD has never plagiarized anything, so your assertions are quite serious offenses and slander.

UMD, the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney, the Macedonian Community of Adelaide and South Australia, and other organizations co-sponsored an advertisement in May 2007, not November. The advertisement was published in The Australian the same day of former Greek Prime Minister Karamanlis' visit to Australia, and not in response to some Melbourne Greek rally.

The advertisement was originally initiated by UMD, and primarily championed by Ljupco Stankovski of the Australian Macedonian Weekly, a very strong supporter and member of UMD. It was Mr. Stankovski that contacted the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney to join UMD in this initiative, and MOCS paid half of the funds needed for the advertisement. Whereas, Mr. Stankovski raised the other half through the various other organizations who donated and some individuals including himself. UMD authored/drafted the original text, and the various organizations sponsoring the advertisement had additions, and the final text was composed, which was used for the advertisement (the drafting committee did an excellent job). It was agreed upon by all participating sponsoring organizations. UMD never refused to put its name on the advertisement and you make false claims.

Here is something that may peak your interest about the advertisement written by the Pan-Macedonian Federation of Australia against UMD:

http://modern-macedonian-history.blo...1_archive.html

On the same day of the advertisement, UMD issued a press release as well regarding the visit of Prime Minister Karamanalis, of which Mr. Vangelovski was the spokesperson for:

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/210/1/

I must come back to this because you have caused confusion between the earlier advertisement in The Australian and the later advertisement inThe Age and Sydney Morning Herald, as well as between UMD as an organization that co-published an advertisement in The Australian and Meto Koloski as an opinion writer in The Age.

The earlier advertisement in THE AUSTRALIAN was co-published by the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia (a key name you seem to be overlooking completely) and UMD. The collaborative effort was suggested to me by Ljupco Stankovski (both a UMD member and a long-time collaborator and supporter of the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia). UMD did not SPONSOR the advertisement with any funds of its own. Yes, the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney paid for more than half of that ad too (as it did for the later ads in The Age and Sydney Morning Herald), while the money Ljupco Stankovski helped raise was from other organization-members and supporters of the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia (including himself).

The first draft of the advertisement in The Australian was sent to me by Tom Vangelovski. It underwent extensive changes after days of incessant email debates about its contents, in which myself and UMD’s Australian members - Tom Vangelovski, Ljupco Stankovski, Igor Zvezdakovski and Ordan Andreevski - took a distinctly different approach to the 'diplomatic' approach that the UMD leadership from the USA pursued, especially in relation to the use of the logo with the 16-Ray Sun and the reference to the division, occupation and repression of Macedonia since 1913. When we ran out of time for debates, although we had made some inroads towards a mutually acceptable text, the UMD leadership from the US still insisted that the text Vangelovski (as UMD's Australian head) and I agreed on was too 'undiplomatic'. That's when I say said something like: "We are the ones funding this and we will have final say as to what it looks like. If the UMD guys from the US don't like it, we'll publish it without them."

The UMD's name was ultimately included under the advertisement in The Australian because the Aussie UMD members wanted it to be. Some time later, a certain UMD leader from the US made statements on Maknews to the effect that he didn't want to enter collaborative activities with the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia and Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney again because I had allegedly threatened to withhold funding for the ad in The Australian if I didn't get 'my' way. That feeling on his part probably explains why neither he or any other UMD member from the US made any contributions when the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia later published advertisements in The Age and Sydney Morning Herald, in response to a Greek racist rally held in Melbourne.

Vangelovski's version of events regarding the advertisement in The Age is pretty much spot on. You were out of line in accusing him of lying. You should either substantiate your accusations or make a retraction and apologize.

If you have a problem with Vangelovski questioning whether the UMD flyer's reference to an opinion piece by Meto in The Age might be a dishonest attempt to claim credit for the AMCA’s advertisement, you could simply disclose which opinion piece in The Age the UMD flyer refers to. Why is that so hard?

[aleksandrov]

Originally Posted by El Bre

Thanks RtG. There is no doubt that we find ourselves in a situation that, in this day and age, no nation deserves to be in, but, I fail to see how these appendages can be construed as treacherous for neither implies any racial or geographical meaning.

Any act that sells out the NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY and HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS that generations of Macedonians have struggled for is treacherous. The name of a SOVEREIGN state and the ethnic and national identity of human beings are matters of sovereign and free (i.e. not under duress) decision-making, and the universally codified human right to FREE self-determination and FREE self-identification. These are not matters to be determined in negotiations with or under threats or blackmail by a foreign hostile nation, unless that nation can legitimately claim that the Macedonian people are exercising their sovereignty and human rights in a way that conflicts with the sovereignty and human rights of others.

If you don't appreciate how fundamental and sacred the concepts of sovereignty and human rights are, and what they mean, you should do some research and deep thinking about what it is that generations of Macedonian liberation fighters and activists have struggled for and why the Republic of Macedonia declared sovereignty and independence to start with.