United Macedonia Diaspora

[Prolet]

A.Mitreski, Do you have the list of achievements from 2009?

You shouldnt be so upset, we give credit where its due you did a fantastic job organizing the screening of "A Name is a Name" keep it up the good work.

The Ilinden Upraising succeed, it only lasted 10 days and the Ottoman Turks took it back then what happened afterwords? We where split into 3 parts, Turkey had a modern army with Cannons and Machine Guns while we had the Creshevo Topche covering us. The Bulgarians,Greeks and Serbs took advantage of our weakness and they took over us, while even the British and Australian Troops struggled against the Turkish Forces as we all know what happened in Gallipolli they where sent to the slaughter house.

[Phoenix]

we can not argue with people who spin and twist things around intentionally.

...then you're not fit to challenge the greeks.

[osiris]

mitreski are you able to give us a break down of where most of umds finacial support comes from.

[Prolet]

A Mitreski, Have you ever heard of "Za Sekoj Komita Tri Kodoshi" ??

The test is now my friend, The Premier of South Australia just called us History Thieves and other names. Get your people on it to follow this case carefully, sooner or later you will have to get involved. Demonstrate that you can work together with the other groups and you will gain our trust.

[aleksandrov]

Originally Posted by Buktop

It is not about judging Aleksandrov, it is about the rights of the citizens to question the constitutionality of their adherence to the Interim and Framework agreements.

Have you volunteered your time to construct a case for the constitutional court in Macedonia? Have you, being such an important activist, offered to help support a case reaching the constitutional courts?

I do what I can, when I can, I am not the activist that you are, but yet I don't see you pushing for exploring the proper avenue's of questioning or overthrowing the Interim and Framework Agreements at the constitutional courts, (where this whole matter should have been decided 20 years ago) It is not difficult to discern that the government of Macedonia follows these two agreements and considers them valid and binding and within their constitutional authority, so wouldn't the obvious course of action be to question it through the high courts?

This is not a question of what have I done, what have you done, it is a question of why hasn't this been done?

My advocacy against the Framework Agreement is well documented in Macedonian and Australian media archives since before it was even ratified.

The Macedonian Australian Council of Sydney (including the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney and the Macedonian Orthodox Community Church St. Petka) raised $386,237.70 in less than a month just in Sydney to support the defense against the racist terrorists who attacked Macedonia in 2001 i.e. to do the opposite of appeasing them with something like the Framework Agreement.

While most of the money from that fund was used to support the families of soldiers who were or would be killed or injured on the frontline - something that is essential for sustained resistance, the Macedonian Australian Council of Sydney is the only organization anywhere in the world to have funded a media campaign in the Republic of Macedonia against the ratification of that treacherous and suicidal Agreement (with ground-support from the World Macedonian Congress and MAAK). We also sponsored the blockade by displaced Macedonians of the border with Kosovo, which was designed as a protest against foreign pressure to appease the Albanian racist terrorists (also organized by the World Macedonian Congress). If more organizations and some political parties had the courage and will to join us, we might have actually succeeded. Since that time, we have consistently maintained a policy that the Framework Agreement is a treacherous, racially discriminatory and ruinous arrangement, which must be replaced with a model for the Rule of Law and multiculturalism that is based on a successful Western model (but not on the Swiss model, where there is no autochthonous Swiss ethnicity), where racism and terrorism are not rewarded, but punished. I would fill you in on some of the details if I thought it was worthwhile, but it seems that you are only questioning me as a way to divert attention from the fact that you and the organization you support have not only failed to clearly denounce or condemn the Framework Agreement, but have in fact praised it.

Regardless of what you and the UMD have said and done in the past, I would be happy to know that in future you will condemn and oppose it for what it is. Are you and the UMD willing to do that or not?

I have almost no faith in Macedonia's Constitutional Court. In fact, I have little faith in the Macedonian legal system in general, especially when it comes to protecting citizens' rights against the power of the state (especially the post-communist installations of SDSM and Co.) and its foreign puppet-masters. Even the current Government of Macedonia has no faith in the Constitutional Court. Hypothetically, if the Constitutional Court were to rule that the Framework Agreement or any part of it is unconstitutional, the political parties that are responsible for its ratification could easily change the Constitution to overcome any legal obstacles to their designs. So why would I waste my time launching a case before the Constitutional Court?

The only thing that can save Macedonia is the extermination of the popular slave mentality that lets the rule of fear and petty materialism take precedence over justice and the Rule of Law.

[Buktop]

Originally Posted by aleksandrov

I refuse to believe that you are so dense as to believe what you just said there. And I hope you take that as a compliment.

Thanks for the compliment, what I see in the quote indigen posted is an advocacy against violence and hatred. I see an advocacy of temporary adherence in an effort "to continue towards the much-needed progress and reforms". I took it as a policy of buying time while working to find a better solution. I know you do not view it like this, and I can't make you see what I see, and I understand the point you are trying to argue, but as you said, between the politicians, the legal system and the separatist elements within the Albanian community, we have more problems than we can handle. The government has trapped us within the tangles of this treacherous agreement, and the key to overthrowing it is to tackle the legal problems that allow these sorts of issues to exist. I would like to see more action from UMD in relation to the legal shortcomings of the constitution.

Originally Posted by Aleksandrov

Regardless of what you and the UMD have said and done in the past, I would be happy to know that in future you will condemn and oppose it for what it is. Are you and the UMD willing to do that or not?

I have always condemned and opposed the Framework and Interim Agreements, I have always advocated overthrowing them, we differ on the avenues to achieving the ends.

Originally Posted by Aleksandrov

My advocacy against the Framework Agreement is well documented in Macedonian and Australian media archives since before it was even ratified.

The Macedonian Australian Council of Sydney (including the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney and the Macedonian Orthodox Community Church St. Petka) raised $386,237.70 in less than a month just in Sydney to support the defense against the racist terrorists who attacked Macedonia in 2001 i.e. to do the opposite of appeasing them with something like the Framework Agreement.

While most of the money from that fund was used to support the families of soldiers who were or would be killed or injured on the frontline - something that is essential for sustained resistance, the Macedonian Australian Council of Sydney is the only organization anywhere in the world to have funded a media campaign in the Republic of Macedonia against the ratification of that treacherous and suicidal Agreement (with ground-support from the World Macedonian Congress and MAAK). We also sponsored the blockade by displaced Macedonians of the border with Kosovo, which was designed as a protest against foreign pressure to appease the Albanian racist terrorists (also organized by the World Macedonian Congress). If more organizations and some political parties had the courage and will to join us, we might have actually succeeded. Since that time, we have consistently maintained a policy that the Framework Agreement is a treacherous, racially discriminatory and ruinous arrangement, which must be replaced with a model for the Rule of Law and multiculturalism that is based on a successful Western model (but not on the Swiss model, where there is no autochthonous Swiss ethnicity), where racism and terrorism are not rewarded, but punished. I would fill you in on some of the details if I thought it was worthwhile, but it seems that you are only questioning me as a way to divert attention from the fact that you and the organization you support have not only failed to clearly denounce or condemn the Framework Agreement, but have in fact praised it.

I applaud your efforts, I am genuinely appreciative of the work you have done, I am not asking simply to detract from the issues or divert from criticism, I ask out of sincerity.

Originally Posted by aleksandrov

I have almost no faith in Macedonia's Constitutional Court. In fact, I have little faith in the Macedonian legal system in general, especially when it comes to protecting citizens' rights against the power of the state (especially the post-communist installations of SDSM and Co.) and its foreign puppet-masters. Even the current Government of Macedonia has no faith in the Constitutional Court. Hypothetically, if the Constitutional Court were to rule that the Framework Agreement or any part of it is unconstitutional, the political parties that are responsible for its ratification could easily change the Constitution to overcome any legal obstacles to their designs. So why would I waste my time launching a case before the Constitutional Court?

And here is where I agree with you, this is the discussion I wanted to promote previously to highlight the shortcomings of the Macedonian constitution that was drafted by the corrupt and power hungry remnants of a dictatorial system. I feel this is a much more important subject than quarreling over the he said she said nonsense. Unfortunately I was accused of diverting from the UMD discussion and the issue was ignored.

This is an honest question, would it be possible for the citizens to call on the government to redraft or remove the relevant articles of the constitution that give the government the power to amend it without the consent of the people?

Originally Posted by Aleksandrov

The only thing that can save Macedonia is the extermination of the popular slave mentality that lets the rule of fear and petty materialism take precedence over justice and the Rule of Law.

I think that the people should be given real options to discourse and to ensure the actions of the government are in the interests of the citizens. This alone would eliminate the fearful mindset the people have towards their government.

Governments should fear their citizens, the citizens should not fear their governments.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by amitreski

Let's move the discussion here http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ad.php?p=35414 . Please read my post that contains my article in Dnevnik.

I did read that post. It did not really touch on most of my concerns. Can you have another go?

Here it is again:

Hello amitreski, welcome to this forum.
I feel a little frustrated with the UMD and wonder out loud whether there has ever been situations where the UMD has done quite the opposite in relation to decisions of the Macedonian Government. Has the UMD ever castigated (any of) the Government's decisions or actions at any point? Some people may in fact view the UMD as a voice or tool of the Macedonian Government. Does the Macedonian Diaspora need to blindly support the Government in power?

I have touched upon this in the past and have wondered what the UMD will do when it comes to a crossroad in ideology. Will it be prepared to lose relationships with the Government in power to assert itself? It has never done this in the past as far as I am aware.

Thank you for admitting the error in Meto's youthful statements. We still really do not have closure on this matter until he personally deals with it. The protracted nature of this line of query has ensured the UMD is not seen to be transparent and merely raises more questions about the true intent of this organisation.

How do you feel about the MPO alliance with UMD? What are your thoughts in relation to this organisation?

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by amitreski

Given the widespread discussion in this mistake, I am sure Meto would not make that mistake again .

Perhaps there is a use for pesky internet forums after all.
Notwithstanding this, the issue here is not whether he will repeat that mistake again, it is more to do with whether he sincerely believes it and has not changed his mind. Then it comes to how much influence he has over the rest of the UMD executive committee.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by amitreski

BTW


What I am upset the most about is that UMD's policy is twistes up like a pretzel on these forums by few people who either belong to another Macedonian organization and try to weaken UMD, or just due to pure jealousy.

Ако бараш влакно ќе го најдеш и во јајцето.

Here is my article published in Dnevnik. As you can see I have asked some serious questions:

Не треба да се преговара за тоа што е наше

(Текст на Александар Митрески, потпретседател на Обединета македонска дијаспора, објавен на www.umdiaspora.org , 24-ти април 2008)

Кога се преговара во некој спор, двете страни почнуваат со тврди ставови во своја корист кои се појдовна точка за да се дискутира за можен компромис. За жал, веќе 17 години Македонија наивно преговара. Ние во овие преговори треба јасно и гласно да кажеме дека нашето уставно име и идентитет не се можна тема за дискусија. Впрочем, ниедна личност, партија, установа нема право да преговара за уставното име.

Но наместо тоа, ние постојано гледаме како да најдеме некое си фер решение и со тоа постојано си ги поткопуваме нашите позици. Во исто време, пак, Македонија никогаш гласно не кажала дека и таа има проблем со својот јужен сосед кој треба итно да се реши, а тоа се правата на Македонците од Егејска Македонија.

Уставното име на нашата држава е Република Македонија и нема менување на тоа име за интерна и интернационална употреба. Доколку Грција има проблем со тоа име, тогаш билатерално да се реши тоа прашање. Ова требаше да биде исходот од преговорите за името во 1995-та година. А ние тогаш, а и сега, влегуваме во преговори веќе подготвени за отстапки и компромис. А другата страна во 1995-та г. излезе со тврд став дека во името на нашата држава не смее да стои зборот Македонија, за сега да изгледа како херој кој веќе направил компромис и може да прифати име како Северна Македонија.

Колку шлаканици треба да ни се удрат за ние да се освестиме дека не треба да продолжиме во овој самоубиствен процес за срамно преговарање за нешто што со векови е наше? Тажно е тоа што Бакојани се лути дека Нимиц давал промакедонски предлози. Секој предлог на Нимиц кој е различен од нашето уставно име е погубен предлог за нас и ние тоа треба гласно да го манифестираме. Во овие преговори само ние можеме да изгубиме нешто, а другата страна е победник со самото тоа што има преговори.

Дали на Република Македонија не и е грижа за стотиците илјади Македонци кои се обесправени во Егејска Македонија и уште толку Македонци кои не можат да одат да си ги видат своите родни огништа? Кога Р. Македонија ќе го покрене ова прашанје во овие преговори? До кога срамно ќе молчиме против нашиот јужен сосед додека тие си играат со нас како сакаат? Зарем е толку тешко да се свати дека проблемот не е името, туку со милионите што јужниот содед треба да ги плати за оштета кон Егејските Македонци?

Македонија мора веднаш да ги прекине овие преговори, бидејќи повеќе не е обврзана да го прави тоа. Со ветото е прекршен Привремениот договор и со тоа Р. Македонија мора да поднесе барање за пререгистрација во Обединетите нации под своето уставно име. Впрочем, се виде дека тие селективно почитуваат договори. Ние го дадовме своето знаме за да не ни се дава вето. Кој ни гарантира дека доколку пак направиме отстапки тие нема повторно селективно да почитуваат договори кога треба да влеземе во ЕУ?

Македонија мора да почне агресивно да го поставува прашањето за Македонците од Егејска Македонија до Европскиот парламент и Судот во Стразбург. Македонија треба да поведе судска постапка поради прекршување на договорот и претрпените штети што не сме во НАТО. Се покажа дека, и покрај ветото, Р. Македонија има пријатели и има перспектива. НАТО нема да ги реши економските прашања, туку работа, почитување на закони, некорумпираност и гордост се нашата иднина.

This is a reasonable letter in my opinion.
I welcome the different path it treads from that of Meto's "mistake".
Why would you not make such broadcasts in the English language in suitable publications?

As an aside, the AMHRC is funding Greek and Bulgarian based organisations that fight for the rights you speak of in your last paragraph. They have made monthly cash contributions over many years to these organisations in order to keep up the fight. You should talk to them to find out more about this.

[Vangelovski]

Mitrevski, that's one of the problems with UMD - it tells people what they "want to hear" and then makes public statements to the contrary, such as speculating on "acceptable" names.