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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-20-2010, 05:26 AM   #1631
Jankovska
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Originally Posted by Prolet View Post
You're dead right about that, Gjorgje Ivanov thinks the same way.

Иванов: За идентитетот нема место за преговори
Горазд Чомовски



Македoнија е најмногу заинтересирана да се премости спорот со името во што е можно најскоро време но никако нема да дозволи во нејзино име друг да решава и притоа да го оспорува правото на самоопределување и самоидентификација.

Претседателот Иванов со сугестија до Грција што поскоро сфатите дека за идентитетските прашања нема место за преговарање толку побрзо ќе може да постигнеме компромис во спорот.

Идентитетските одредници се прашања за кои едноставно не сакаме или уште попрецизно, немаме право да разговараме. Се надевам дека и нашиот сосед е свесен дека за идентитетските прашања никој на овој свет не разговара. Идентитетот е чувство со кое се раѓа човекот и таквото индивидуално чувство на граѓаните едноставно е невозможно да се одземе на маса со акт, со парче хартија. Доколку нашиот сосед реално, не декларативно, покаже подготвеност за решение, до компромис може да се дојде. Ние сме подготвени, рече Ѓорѓе Иванов, претседател на Република Македонија.

Резимирајќи ја изминатата година доајенот на дипломатскиот кор, хрватскиот амбасадор ги поздрави успеси што Македонија ги направила во 2009 година, особено добро спроведените претседателски и локалните избори а честиташе и за добиената визна либерализација и препораката за почеток на преговори.

Се надеваме дека вашата земја ќе продолжи решително со своите реформски напори и дека успешно ќе ги реши сите отворени прашања кои создаваат потешкотии на тој пат. Вашето општество треба и понатаму да го поддржува европскиот пат, со широк консензус и со поддршка на сите политички сили, вели Иван Кујунџиќ, амбасадор на Хрватска во Македонија.

Она што можеше да му се прочита меѓу редови во обраќањето на Иванов е дека претседателот не е најсреќен од позицијата во која сега е Македонија.

http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=118797

I hope I am not the only one reading this correctly but the guy is talking about our identity and he is not going to negotiate which i thought is obvious that we were not going to anyway. He is still willing to look for a solution on the name.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:32 AM   #1632
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Risto, I am offended by this statement, what are you trying to say? All Americans are stupid? Didn't all you Aussies have your panties in a twist when Maknews made the same comments? Hypocrisy at its best...

Again, you didn't even bother to read anything that I wrote.

Risto, please tell me you know something about the foreign policy of nations... You think Australia gets itself involved in other nations business for the sake of the poor and innocent? PLEASE read what I write before making statements like these, it might give people the impression that you are pursuing an agenda...

Risto, I am very disappointed with this post, maybe I should go rally up all the Americans on the forums and start threads saying that Risto is trying to create divisions in the diaspora?
I resent the USA for restricting Macedonia in its defense of sovereignty. Before you rally up the Americans you need to prove your point, ask them if America does what it does with USA's interests placed first and foremost. If they cannot accept this, then don't bring them here. I did say "typically Americans", it would exclude people like True Macedonian. How many Americans have passports, I am sure 5% was the statistic. The world revolves around the USA for most Americans and they have the least interest in world affairs of almost all people. As a general rule, give me Europeans for conversation any time.

Australia acts in its own interests in East Timor and other places where it can exert influence. It is a disgusting reality. It does not mean Macedonians should be proud of it. To be honest, if I was to consider being a prostitute, I would like a little more money for the degradation.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:32 AM   #1633
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america is not and has never been Macedonia's friend. The EU is not and has never been Macedonia's friend. The sooner our gov, Macedonian Diaspora org and the Macedonians themselves understand this the sooner we will be looking to the future and NOT hoping that someone will save us. Everyone who think America or the EU are our friends and give a fuck about should really open their eyes, wake up and smell the coffee
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:36 AM   #1634
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Of course I know about the Tito-Stalin split, as I am sure you would know that neither Tito, Stalin or their armies bombed Macedonian villages with Napalm oil after WWII, in support of the Greeks. By the way, Bill Clinton was not alive during this time.
If you know about the Tito-Stalin split, then you know that the American and British pilots would not have ever been ordered to fly over Greek territory had Stalin not withdrawn support for the partizans in Greece. By the way, primary bombing coordination over Greece was conducted by Britain, considering they had the most to gain or lose pending the outcome of the war. Between 1943-45 Britain had invested well over a billion pounds in Greece.

Re-read my post concerning Bill Clinton, this was in response to your comments on 2001.

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Quite the contrary, I am not asking you to tell me your opinion, just the facts. What have the USA done in Macedonia, that has benefited Macedonia?

I will give you an example, then you can give me a parallel.

During 2001 the Americans entered Macedonia to save ethnic Albanian terrorists from the Macedonian forces. That was an act in Macedonia, to the benefit of the ethnic Albanians.
I was not offering an opinion, I stated that whether it be my opinion or yours facts wont matter (as we will see with responding posts). How about the amount of FDI from the US. How about the new US-Macedonian military contracts.

I want to ask you something now. What has Russia done in Macedonia to benefit Macedonians, What has Australia done in Macedonia to benefit Macedonians?
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:44 AM   #1635
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I resent the USA for restricting Macedonia in its defense of sovereignty. Before you rally up the Americans you need to prove your point, ask them if America does what it does with USA's interests placed first and foremost. If they cannot accept this, then don't bring them here. I did say "typically Americans", it would exclude people like True Macedonian. How many Americans have passports, I am sure 5% was the statistic. The world revolves around the USA for most Americans and they have the least interest in world affairs of almost all people. As a general rule, give me Europeans for conversation any time.

Australia acts in its own interests in East Timor and other places where it can exert influence. It is a disgusting reality. It does not mean Macedonians should be proud of it. To be honest, if I was to consider being a prostitute, I would like a little more money for the degradation.
I resent Australia for not recognizing Macedonia's constitutional name... and therefor restricting its sovereignty.
No one has ever denied that USA acts on behalf of its own interests, I don't know what you are arguing about? No one ever said they were proud of America acting on their own interests, I said that Macedonia could use that to its benefit... And excuse me, but are you talking of general Americans, or the American Macedonians? I would advise you be careful how you phrase these statements.


You keep alluding to the comparison of being a prostitute, did you ever wonder why women became prostitutes? I assure you it was not by choice, and it was not because they were well off, and were able to support themselves.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:49 AM   #1636
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
I resent Australia for not recognizing Macedonia's constitutional name... and therefor restricting its sovereignty.
No one has ever denied that USA acts on behalf of its own interests, I don't know what you are arguing about? No one ever said they were proud of America acting on their own interests, I said that Macedonia could use that to its benefit... And excuse me, but are you talking of general Americans, or the American Macedonians? I would advise you be careful how you phrase these statements.


You keep alluding to the comparison of being a prostitute, did you ever wonder why women became prostitutes? I assure you it was not by choice, and it was not because they were well off, and were able to support themselves.
A be sto ako nekoj te priznae kad ke te natera da si dades g'zot pod kirija na Siptarite?
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:29 AM   #1637
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
I resent Australia for not recognizing Macedonia's constitutional name... and therefor restricting its sovereignty.
No one has ever denied that USA acts on behalf of its own interests, I don't know what you are arguing about? No one ever said they were proud of America acting on their own interests, I said that Macedonia could use that to its benefit... And excuse me, but are you talking of general Americans, or the American Macedonians? I would advise you be careful how you phrase these statements.


You keep alluding to the comparison of being a prostitute, did you ever wonder why women became prostitutes? I assure you it was not by choice, and it was not because they were well off, and were able to support themselves.
Buktop, I resent Australia for not recognising Macedonia's name. We agree. I cannot even begin to compare that with the USA encouraging ethnic Albanian terrorists to destabilise Macedonia.

I am not sure what will happen if I phrase statements in any particular way in relation to general comments about Americans. I like many South Americans if that helps you.

Many (not all) prostitutes merely make lifestyle choices. They are often frowned upon in society for taking the easy way out. I am sure I should interpret your final comment that Macedonia should indeed prostitute itself because it is not well off and unable to support itself. This is why you give up so easily. ... This is why I say forums can often reveal more about a person than a few meetings ever could. If we met, you would be another chest beating proud Macedonian. But as the words keep flowing here, you are on the bed copping it royally by the stars and stripes so your Macedonian relatives can learn Albanian back home. I bet you don't look like Julia Roberts as well.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:50 AM   #1638
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Wow SoM. So it is all my fault for offering a differing opinion and interpretation of statements than yours?
Absolutely not, and nowhere have I made such a statement.
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Secondly you know what I said regarding Meto's comments and I don't appreciate you misrepresenting my statements.
How am I misrepresenting? I was appreciative of your reply to my questions regarding Meto's ZMR interview, I just think you are going easy on criticising what he actually said (then and on other occasions) because you are sympathetic to him and/or the UMD. I don't like to equate you (or even Dzog) as UMD 'messenger boys', but it is sometimes hard to argue against that when, on the one hand you guys are forever on Pelister's back about his anti-UMD articles, while on the other, regardless of who is making the criticism on the UMD it is generally the same group of guys that come in to bat for them. As you indicated earlier, perception is everything. I think, deep down, were it not to be on a public forum like this, and were it not for this so-called Australo-American 'division' that was honed at Maknews, you would probably be more vocal.
Quote:
SoM, you have proven to be one of the most reasonable people to hold a conversation with on this forum, our past history and differences aside, I respect that. I am not a UMD messenger boy, and any and all arguments I have made concerning UMD are in an attempt to offer a different perspective and interpretation of the disputed statements. I will not force you to believe my interpretations but I believe they not only balance the debate, but provide an opportunity to weed out the week and irrelevant arguments that cannot be substantiated or proved.
Buktop, I have absolutely no issue at all with you (or anybody else) voicing opinions, but when generalisations enter the picture it bothers me because a false conclusion can be drawn that gives an unnecessary negative image of the MTO.
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:02 AM   #1639
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Buktop, Russia recognized Stari Kraj alot earlier then USA did for starters.
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:29 AM   #1640
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My involvement in the UMD threads would have ended had it not been for Vangelovski and Phoenix constantly accusing me of foul play and communist style stifling of opposition.
Mate, get over yourself...perhaps you have issues with Vangelovski wiping the floor with your constitutional ramblings but don't drag me into your bullshit...get it right, I've never accused you of "foul play" or "communist style stifling of opposition"...I've called you an American arse-licker.

Buktop for somebody who has defended Meto's statements with the steady hand of a surgeon of semantics you deliberately butcher other statements when it serves a different agenda...
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