United Macedonia Diaspora

[Dzog]

I have had enough of the divisiveness within the Macedonian diaspora. Disputes between UMD and other parties, disputes between churches, disputes between internet forums - it is absolute bullshit and the primary reason why I steer clear from affiliation of any kind. All I see is people pushing their own agendas veiled by a seemingly genuine concern for Macedonian issues. Rather than blindly following one organisation, one party or one forum, open your mind, do some independent reading and end the stupidity .

[Risto the Great]

I almost agree.
If one organisation manages to attain a significant level of influence, are they beyond scrutiny?

[TrueMacedonian]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

I almost agree.
If one organisation manages to attain a significant level of influence, are they beyond scrutiny?

Nothing and no one is beyond scrutiny. But unfortunately the diaspora isn't unified. All these attacks going back and forth still cannot compensate for the reality that the Macedonian diaspora simply cannot mobilize and unify.

[Dzog]

No organisation is ever beyond scrutiny, regardless of their level of influence. However, in my eyes, scrutiny is a careful observation of faults with appropriate suggestions for reform (namely by those parties affected by these faults). All I have ever seen is misguided criticism underpinned by a powerplay between the stakeholders. As such, the problems in the diaspora can be seen as a reflection of the problems in the Republic, and I don't think it's a coincidence.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It is only viewed as an attack when one party persists against another. The 'attacks' are simply repelled by acknowledging what has taken place accompanied with an explanation and/or justification as to why such words were said.

While I don't agree with the relentless persistence displayed by Pelister, I have to admit that, were it not for people like him, I would be much more ingorant about the UMD. Because of Pelister's endless efforts against the UMD, I decided to look into the matter myself. And, lo and behold, Meto did advocate a name change.

A person that cannot be honest with himself and his own mistakes cannot possibly be expected to be honest with the people he apparently 'represents'. So long as he continues to bury his head in the sand, the status quo will remain. There is absolutely no difference between Meto giving answers here or in a public forum as he intends to with his imminent arrival to Australia.

Two words of advice for the UMD: Transparency & Integrity

These debacles will end when we have the right people in leadership positions, that the Macedonian Diaspora can have confidence in, in full knowledge that these leaders will not succumb to any compromise and will always keep the best interests of the Macedonian people at the forefront. That is not what I see in suggestions that Macedonia "has to" change its name or that there are names other than the (Republic of) Macedonia "acceptable" for international or any use at all.

Pelister - I don't think UMD are grkomani, bugaromani, etc, I think they need to address issues from the past before it is too late for their organisation to repair the UMD image, which is nothing but dust in Australia as far as I am concerned.

TM, Dzog, Buktop, etc - Surely you guys have watched the ZMR interview, surely, you cannot seriously deny that Meto advocates a name change?

Neither side is willing to meet each other half way, that is the problem fellas.

[Risto the Great]

Some people in the Macedonian Diaspora believe a name change for entry into some organisations is a good thing. Those people may well be represented by the UMD. If the UMD is keeping its mouth shut in order to attract other people as well, then it is misleading people.

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Two words of advice for the UMD: Transparency & Integrity

I agree, however this is only applicable if we assume "integrity" relates to our preferred course of action for the UMD. Why are so many people so passionate about this matter? Because they actually hope a worldwide organisation can step up and fight for the majority's will of Macedonians in the diaspora.

In this case, the UMD has suggested it is only the voice for their members and does not purport to represent anybody else. I am not sure if this statement is UMD policy or merely a statement from any number of UMD apologists. But maybe the voice the UMD has is one that represents "We will do whatever it takes to join NATO etc."

In which case, they are using an early 1990's approach to problem solving.

[Dzog]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

I
TM, Dzog, Buktop, etc - Surely you guys have watched the ZMR interview, surely, you cannot seriously deny that Meto advocates a name change?

I have no interest in the policies of the UMD or other organisations in the Macedonian diaspora (including the comments of their members). As far as I'm concerned, they have no bearing on what happens in the Republic. I commend these organised efforts in providing avenues for education and awareness but am highly critical of their political commentary as they unnecessarily fracture Macedonians by virtue of their unique ideologies and beliefs.


Edit: I just watched the interview and I think Mr Koloski categorically rejects any further compromise. Although he does mention a different identifier ("Democratic") as being more acceptable than FYROM or what has been offered for international use only, I don't think this qualifies as advocacy for a name change.

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Buktop

I am sorry Vangelovski but you cannot argue with what the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia says, no matter how hard you try, or how much you don't want to believe it...

This is what the Constitution says in the following articles:

Vii. ОДБРАНА НА РЕПУБЛИКАТА, ВОЕНА И ВОНРЕДНА СОСТОЈБА

Член 122
Вооружените сили на Република Македонија го штитат територијалниот интегритет и независноста на Републиката.

Одбраната на Републиката се уредува со закон што се донесува со двотретинско мнозинство гласови од вкупниот број пратеници.

Член 123
Никој нема право да признае окупација на Република Македонија или на нејзин дел.

Do you think the constitution was breached (and HIGH TREASON COMMITTED) in 2001 by those that disregarded their constitutional responsibilities and enacted the capitulationist "Ramkoven dogovor"?

What is the penalty for high treason in USA?

Was Boris Trajkovski guilty of high treason?

Why is Boris Trajkovski promoted as a hero by UMD? Is the UMD a RAMKOVIST (and Vrhovist) support group?

UMD Remembers President Trajkovski
26 February 2007

Washington, D.C. – February 26 marks the 3-year anniversary of the tragic plane accident that caused the death of the former Macedonian President Boris Trajkovski and his entourage. The president and his associates were heading towards the regional economic forum in Mostar, Bosnia.

President Trajkovski stood behind his people through many trials and tribulations. His thoughts are prevalent even today. “The [Framework] Agreement is not perfect, but no agreement ever is…It is the best thing we have right now…The alternative is division at all levels: civil, inter-ethnic, political and generational…The alternative to peace is war, which will expose everyone to mass casualties, misery and a loss of perspective for many years to come,” said President Trajkovski in 2001.

Republic of Macedonia knocks on the door to NATO membership and is an EU member candidate. United Macedonian Diaspora encourages the Macedonian government, political opposition, and civil society not to forget the words of President Trajkovski and to continue towards the much-needed progress and reforms to ensure admission into all Euro-Atlantic institutions. There are urgent reforms that must be addressed in order for the Republic of Macedonia to join Euro-Atlantic structures, and our organization encourages the Macedonian government and its assembly to diligently work toward meeting these goals.

United Macedonian Diaspora is certain that differences between political parties will be overcome, reforms will be met, and that President Trajkovski’s vision “to create a society based on democracy, the rule of law and the free market economy, ultimately creating a civil society based on trust,” will prevail. The United Macedonian Diaspora salutes this courageous man that always put his people and country ahead of personal glorification.

To learn more about the life and legacy of President Trajkovski, please visit the Boris Trajkovski International Foundation website by clicking HERE.

Founded in 2004, United Macedonian Diaspora is an international membership organization based in Washington, D.C. addressing the interests and needs of Macedonians and Macedonian communities throughout the world.

[TrueMacedonian]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

It is only viewed as an attack when one party persists against another. The 'attacks' are simply repelled by acknowledging what has taken place accompanied with an explanation and/or justification as to why such words were said.

While I don't agree with the relentless persistence displayed by Pelister, I have to admit that, were it not for people like him, I would be much more ingorant about the UMD. Because of Pelister's endless efforts against the UMD, I decided to look into the matter myself. And, lo and behold, Meto did advocate a name change.

A person that cannot be honest with himself and his own mistakes cannot possibly be expected to be honest with the people he apparently 'represents'. So long as he continues to bury his head in the sand, the status quo will remain. There is absolutely no difference between Meto giving answers here or in a public forum as he intends to with his imminent arrival to Australia.

Two words of advice for the UMD: Transparency & Integrity

These debacles will end when we have the right people in leadership positions, that the Macedonian Diaspora can have confidence in, in full knowledge that these leaders will not succumb to any compromise and will always keep the best interests of the Macedonian people at the forefront. That is not what I see in suggestions that Macedonia "has to" change its name or that there are names other than the (Republic of) Macedonia "acceptable" for international or any use at all.

Pelister - I don't think UMD are grkomani, bugaromani, etc, I think they need to address issues from the past before it is too late for their organisation to repair the UMD image, which is nothing but dust in Australia as far as I am concerned.

TM, Dzog, Buktop, etc - Surely you guys have watched the ZMR interview, surely, you cannot seriously deny that Meto advocates a name change?

Neither side is willing to meet each other half way, that is the problem fellas.

SoM I have seen the ZMR video and here it is along with text to read along (don't mind the text if it's not 100% accurate on the Um's and oh's).

YouTube - ZMR United Macedonian Diaspora - Macedonia Name

Whether there's room for compromise,,,Macedonia, we believe, has compromised enough.
One, it has entered the UN ,according to some legal scholars, illegally into the United Nations under this name the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia because as you know the universal declaration of human rights and other human rights treaties and what not conventions have stated that every nation and every people have the right to their own name. So we feel that Macedonia has compromised enough by joining the UN under this name.
Second of all it has changed its flag to sort of appease Greece after this 3 year economic embargo which we know and understand was irrational an otherwise move on Greece's part. Now with this compromise Mathew Nimitz ,the name negotiator, has proposed various names and what not and Greece's stance ,the geographic modifier, which is not acceptable to the Macedonian government is not acceptable to the Macedonian people. The Macedonian people when they chose,,, when they became independent, they chose Republic of Macedonia as their name in their constitution and we feel that they should have that right in all international organizations and institutions. We feel that perhaps a political modifier such as Democratic might be more acceptable only for international use to get rid of this erroneous name the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia because I think ,for example, us Americans would find it funny and amusing lets say if Britain was to decide to call us the Former British Colonies of America. I think the Americans would have a fit about that. And people should understand how Macedonians feel going under this name and Greece forcing this issue of "fyrom" everywhere. Since Greece is the only one that has a problem with Macedonia I think that a name should be found and our organization believes that a name should be found that is acceptable to both parties for bilateral reference. But I don't think a compromise on its international name is acceptable to the Macedonian people nor the Macedonian nation.

Now the landscape seems a bit different when you do see the entire video and not Pelister's one choice sentence. The sentence in question the "political modifier" should be read in full - political modifier such as Democratic might be more acceptable only for international use to get rid of this erroneous name the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia because I think ,for example, us Americans would find it funny and amusing lets say if Britain was to decide to call us the Former British Colonies of America. I think the Americans would have a fit about that. And people should understand how Macedonians feel going under this name and Greece forcing this issue of "fyrom" everywhere.
I think the "smoking gun" here is nothing more than a demonization from someone with a personal beef for Meto. I'm not cheering Meto on because I think Meto should elaborate more on this "political modifier" and if it would only be temporary (like the FYR name) until the UN wakes up or if this name were to stay only for international use. Advocating a name change,,, yes for international use to get rid of "fyrom" which everyone despises.. But no name change for the constitutional name.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Dzog

I have no interest in the policies of the UMD or other organisations in the Macedonian diaspora (including the comments of their members). As far as I'm concerned, they have no bearing on what happens in the Republic. I commend these organised efforts in providing avenues for education and awareness but am highly critical of their political commentary as they unnecessarily fracture Macedonians by virtue of their unique ideologies and beliefs.


Edit: I just watched the interview and I think Mr Koloski categorically rejects any further compromise. Although he does mention a different identifier ("Democratic") as being more acceptable than FYROM or what has been offered for international use only, I don't think this qualifies as advocacy for a name change.

Dzog,

Have you read all of Meto's other statements? Many of them have been posted on here and maknews (where they have been deleted).

I'm not sure why you involve yourself in a Macedonian forum which is largely based on the discussion of Macedonian politics and includes significant discussions on Macedonian diaspora politics if a) you don't believe the diaspora has any real impact on Macedonia and b) you're sick and tired of the 'divisions' within the diaspora?

You also seem to allude to 'divisions' as been bad. You seem to allude to the need for unity. But what sort of unity? And around which vision for Macedonia and for the Macedonian people would you have us 'unite'?