European Migrant Crisis

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    #16
    It would be inediquate to think that Greece is building a wall to Turkish border. It is the EU who will build it and i think it carries a strong message to Turkey that "EU borders finishes there". Then this wall/fence would be no different than the wall of Berlin which divided the capitalist Europe from communists.

    I believe there will be new interesting things between Europe and Turkey in 2011 and probably Turkey and EU will enter new era of relations especially if the last peace negotiations between Greek and Turkish Cyprus fails and this is very likely since no one expects any settlement. So, i can surely say that new crises are on the way since i am sure that France and others will support Greek Cypriots while Turkish Cypriots will struggle for recognition. If they refuse to recognize, then Turkish Cypriots can try to be a part of mainland Turkey and this might even cause all EU and Turkey relations to halt `till an indefinite time.


    Also this wall wont do any good to stop illegal immigrants to go to Greece. If they build it, then they will try other ways like from Aegean sea or regular highway borders with Bulgaria and Greece. Since Bulgarian police never refuses bribes, so immigrants will pass from there. Actually none of immigrants wanna stay in Greece, they wanna go further into Europe, like Italy, France, Germany etc but they get caught in Greece and stay there. But i gotta say that even tough we catch some of them from time to time, Turkish police generally doesn't care much about the ones who go to Greece since we already try to deal with our own illegal immigrants from Armenia, Moldavia, Iraq, Syria and African countries and we cant deal with them all, especially the ones who just transpassing from Turkey to EU.
    Last edited by Onur; 01-03-2011, 07:20 PM.

    Comment

    • Bill77
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 4545

      #17
      'The Greek public has reached its limit in taking in illegal immigrants.

      Bloody hypocrites.

      Illegal immigrants complaining about Illegal immigrants.
      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        #18
        THats right bill they don't own northern greece as a right it was taken in 1913 by force.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • fyrOM
          Banned
          • Feb 2010
          • 2180

          #19
          Until the illegal immigrants eat enough souvlaki and turn into Greeks…apparently this and thinking your Greek is all it takes.
          Once you have achieved Greekness according to them all it then takes to become a Macedonian is hop in your car and drive North for a few hours.

          Comment

          • Serdarot
            Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 605

            #20
            Originally posted by The LION will ROAR View Post
            My only concern is that in 50 years they too will claim that they are related to the Ancient Greeks...
            they are Ancient Greeks were immigrants from Asia and Africa, so they are somehow connected

            Originally posted by DirtyCodingHabitz View Post
            What will the west say? Africans and middle eastern looking people are ancient greeks?
            there is no doubt that Ancient Greeks were African and Middle-Asia settlers.

            the "blond rase with blue eyes" myth is "german dream"...

            the modern greeks also have very big percentage of non-Balkan blood in their venes, they are also settlers

            the Ancient AND the modern greeks are just what Bill wrote:

            Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
            Bloody hypocrites.

            Illegal immigrants complaining about Illegal immigrants.
            about the wall:

            like Onur said, EU (some members) are behind this stupid idea.

            and i also think some problems will escalate this year
            Bratot:
            Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

            Comment

            • Big Bad Sven
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 1528

              #21
              With all of the corrupt officials and police in grease, im sure this wall wont help with people wanting to make a quick buck of the refugees..

              Comment

              • Ottoman
                Banned
                • Nov 2010
                • 203

                #22
                Greece is trying to hide their mess, because of the economic crisis many Greeks come to Turkey for work, believe me those fences are not for illegal immigrants.

                Turkey doesnt need the EU, our economy is rising, in any case of an crisis the EU dont have to clean our diapers like they are doing to Greece now.

                Fuck the EU.

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  #23
                  Ottoman does anyone know how much it's going to cost & who is paying for itAlso don't they have border fences.I think it's a pretext to get more money for a fence & then pretend to build a fence but not actually build one & squander the money.
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • johnMKD
                    Member
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 364

                    #24
                    This is just stupid. A 12.5-kilometre fence to cover a border of more than 200 km! I wonder who was the 'smart' guy that thought about it!! And then, there's also Bulgaria. If the illegals want to enter the EU they can do it from there. Not to mention the vast maritime border which is impossible to be thoroughly controlled.

                    Maybe the EU is just using this as a means to 'pass the message' to Turkey, as Onur said. Only time will tell. But for sure I'm not buying that this is a measure against the illegals.
                    Macedonian and proud!

                    Comment

                    • Onur
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 2389

                      #25
                      Turkish public thinks same as i wrote in this thread 3 weeks ago.

                      Btw, i don't know if you`ve heard or not; After Greece, Bulgaria also recently declared that they will build 143km long giant fence to it`s border with Turkey with EU funds. Their excuse is some animal only disease supposedly coming from wild animals in Turkey to Bulgaria;


                      Greek, Bulgarian fences along Turkish border draw criticism

                      Plans by Greece and Bulgaria to build a fence along the Turkish border have drawn criticism in Turkey as it is widely perceived as the EU's hidden intention to build a wall to mark its borders.

                      Turkish Center for International Relations and Strategic Analysis Chairman Sinan Oğan said Greece and Bulgaria's intention to build a fence along the Turkish border had a hidden agenda. "Greece, under the pretext of illegal migration, and Bulgaria, under the pretext of taking measures against foot and mouth disease, are practically building a wall between Turkey and Europe," said Oğan.

                      Oğan said that fence-building plan was similar to the Berlin Wall or Israel's West Bank barrier. "The European Union is drawing a line to the Turkish border, over Greece and Bulgaria. A line between the worlds of Christianity and Islam. This can't be taken lightly," warned Oğan.

                      Mustafa Yardımcı, a board member at Turkey's Union of Chambers and Commodity Exchanges, or TOBB, and board chairman of the Edirne Commodity Exchange, said he did not believe Bulgaria could build a fence along its border with Turkey as it would be extremely costly and fail to prevent animals from crossing the border.

                      "Our region is free of foot and mouth disease. And besides, even if they build a fence the animals will find an opening and cross the border. I don't see why they would put forth such a thing," said Yardımcı.

                      Edirne Commodity Exchange Deputy Chairman Serdar Yalçıner said the fence-building plan was an EU attempt to mark its borders, noting that Thrace was free of foot and mouth disease.

                      "Bulgaria wants to build a 143-kilometer fence along the border with Turkey under the pretext of foot and mouth disease. It is asking the EU to pay for the costs. It means the EU is building a 'Berlin Wall' along our borders. Let's say they managed to stop boars with a fence – what about birds and moles? The EU is marking its borders," said Yalçıner.

                      Greece's Citizen Protection Minister Christos Papoutsis announced a few weeks ago that the Greek government was planning to construct a fence along the 206-kilometer border with Turkey to stem the flow of nearly 11,000 illegal migrants each year.

                      January 21, 2011

                      http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...ism-2011-01-21



                      Actually, more they put barriers between us and them(EU), that makes me more happier but fences or walls are very disturbing. These things should be the things from the past already. We are in 21th century and it`s such a shame to use these kind of methods for any reason. This is not Gaza-Palestine nor post-WW2 Germany.

                      I am sure that EU leaders are doing this purposely for their own egoistic self-satisfaction.

                      Fck them all...

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #26
                        perhaps the whole thing is a pretext.What happens when a lot of the foreign populations such as the gypsies from bulgaria get kicked out.No wonder they want the eu to foot the bill.As you say they are fencing in turkey?? What ever happened to the notion of open borders not closed borders?With some massive expulsion of people where will those people go to where there's no fences such as turkey or even macedonia.
                        Last edited by George S.; 01-22-2011, 10:25 PM. Reason: edit
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • makedonche
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2008
                          • 3242

                          #27
                          Onur
                          Turkey is very fortunate indeed that these idiots are building a fence to keep themselves in at EU's expense, i wish they would do it all round so that none of these half- breeds can spread any futrther ....lol
                          On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            #28
                            Inside Greece's Guantánamo: 'Death by the Taliban is better than this life'

                            Inside Greece's Guantánamo: 'Death by the Taliban is better than this life'


                            'Inhuman and degrading treatment'?: immigrant children at Filakio detention centre.


                            HANDS POKE through the bars, frantically waving at us to come closer. Half a dozen faces press against the cell window, all desperate to attract our attention. “Please help us,” shouts a man in his 20s. “The conditions are inhumane. We are 100 in this cell. It’s too crowded.” “I’m from Algeria,” cries another. “It’s dirty in here. I’ve been here five months and 24 days. It’s terrible.”


                            Filakio detention centre in northern Greece. Hundreds of asylum seekers and immigrants are held here for weeks or months at a time in crowded and inhumane conditions.


                            The shouted conversation across a two-metre-high razor-wire fence lasts only a few minutes. The guards at the Filakio detention centre in northeast Greece run out and tell my translator we have to move on. We are causing a commotion inside the camp and we do not have a permit to talk to the inmates, who are several hundred economic migrants and asylum seekers recently arrived in Greece from Turkey. The Irish Times applied to the police authorities for permission to enter the Filakio centre, but was refused.

                            When I walk into the centre to ask the guards directly for access it is pretty clear why journalists are barred from the place immigrants have nicknamed Greece’s Guantánamo. The one cell I get a chance to see from the reception area is dingy and overcrowded. Very little light comes through a small barred window. Even at a distance of 10m the stench of urine and sweat is overpowering. Scores of men are squeezed together, either sitting on the floor or standing, with barely room to move. One man sits with his head in his hands.

                            Several immigrants I later interview in Athens allege that they were maltreated at the centre. “One policeman beat me when I spoke English to him,” says Asif, a 24-year-old Afghan who worked for coalition forces in his home country and was forced, he says, to flee by the Taliban. “I was held for one night there, but I was sick when I got out . . . They treat you like an animal.”

                            Such claims are impossible to verify, and the Greek authorities deny maltreatment. But a former public official who was involved in establishing the centre admits that the authorities set out to make living conditions harsh. “The idea at first was not to make it humane. If it wasn’t nice, then people wouldn’t want to come,” says George Kourtoglou. “But the places they come from are even worse, so they kept coming. Now we understand it has to be more humane.”

                            Europe’s top human-rights watchdog last month took the unusual step of issuing a statement about the centre. The Council of Europe said that Filakio provided “filthy, overcrowded, unhygienic, cage-like conditions, with no daily access to outdoor activity” for men, women and children. This could amount to “inhuman and degrading treatment”. Council inspectors also reported they had to step over immigrants to enter overcrowded cells at another Greek detention centre.

                            A backlog of 55,000 undecided asylum cases means it is difficult for immigrants to submit asylum requests. The United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) recently warned that the situation in Greece is a humanitarian crisis and that people needing international protection are not getting the chance to apply for it.

                            Even if asylum seekers get the chance to apply for protection, Greece accepts just 3 per cent of asylum applications. This is the second-lowest rate in the EU, ahead only of Ireland’s 2 per cent rate and below the EU average acceptance rate of 25 per cent.

                            Most immigrants who manage to enter Greece don’t want to stay there, and attempt to travel on to other EU states, such as Germany, France, Britain or one of the Scandinavian countries.

                            The situation in Greece is mirrored to a lesser extent in other countries on the EU’s southern border. Italy has been flooded with more than 30,000 immigrants from Tunisia and Libya in recent weeks, following the unrest in north Africa. Malta, Cyprus and Spain are also on Europe’s front line.

                            These border states are seeking changes to EU rules to enable them to share the burden of incoming economic migrants and asylum seekers with their EU partners. They say that the system is unfair and that greater co- operation between all 27 EU states is urgently needed to cope with immigration flows. This is opposed by countries such as Ireland that do not have an external EU land border and do not want to shoulder the costs of more immigrants. This week France even proposed suspending the EU’s free travel area because of the recent immigrant influx into Italy.

                            “There is a kind of hypocrisy in Europe by raising these walls in their hearts and policies,” says Anna Dalara, Greece’s deputy minister of labour. “We need to reallocate the burden . . . We can’t turn our country into a concentration camp.”

                            Dalara says the vast majority of immigrants want to go to other EU states but get stuck in Greece because of the current EU rules. She admits that the Greek asylum system has effectively collapsed but says that the government is introducing reforms to clear the backlog of asylum claims. The aim is to set up new reception centres to screen immigrants, helping to ensure that those in need of asylum are protected.

                            Among the government’s reforms is a plan to build a wall along a 12.5km stretch of Greece’s land border with Turkey, to try to stem the flow of immigrants. This would be in the area where Asif finished his marathon walk from Afghanistan to Greece last August. It is the only part of the Turkey-Greece border that is not protected by the River Evros, which is fast-flowing in winter and spring and forms a natural barrier to immigrants and asylum seekers.

                            The proposed wall has been criticised by human-rights groups, which fear it will force immigrants and asylum seekers to take more dangerous routes across the river. The EU commissioner for home affairs, Cecilia Malmström, has also criticised the plan. She claims that the deployment in the area of EU border guards from the Frontex agency is helping to reduce the number of immigrants crossing into Greece.

                            About 200 EU border guards from Frontex are conducting joint patrols with the Greek police in the asparagus and cotton fields on this part of the border with Turkey. “This is the area where the most pressure came last year. We made 36,000 arrests in 2010. The numbers crossing here are now decreasing,” says Georgios Tournakis, a Greek police officer. He takes us on a short patrol with two Frontex officers from Latvia, one of whom has a sniffer dog to help trace immigrants who are hiding in bushes.

                            “We scan the area using thermal vision cameras at night, and when we locate immigrants we send a patrol to the border and create a human wall in front of them,” Tournakis says. “We shine lights on them and try to get the Turkish border guards to arrest them.”

                            The Greek police and Frontex have no power to return immigrants once they have crossed the border, however, and Turkey has little incentive to arrest immigrants on its soil. So far Turkey has refused to sign a comprehensive readmission agreement with the EU or Greece to accept illegal immigrants who have passed through its territory into Greece.

                            Nirwais, who fled the Taliban in Afghanistan with his wife and three children last year, paid traffickers several thousand euro to to get them into the EU. “We walked for nine hours to the border with Greece,” he says. “The traffickers put us in a rubber dinghy and pushed us across the Evros river. There were lots of us in the boat, and it was leaking. We were lucky to make it across.”

                            AN HOUR’S DRIVE from the village of Nea Vissa is ample evidence of immigrants crossing the Evros. Kristos, a part-time farmer who owns several fields on the banks of the river, takes us along several trails used by immigrants. Empty bottles, clothes and other rubbish are littered across the trails, which are well worn from the feet of thousands of immigrants. On the riverbank we see at least 10 deflated dinghies. The immigrants and asylum seekers often puncture the boats in case police try to send them back across the river to Turkey.

                            “A few years ago I came across 50 immigrants huddled here under plastic sheeting. There were whole families with children. They were freezing,” says Kristos, who works at the nearby border post. “Most cross on this side of the border post because the other side is mined.”

                            Hundreds of immigrants have died in their desperate attempts to reach Europe. Some drown. Some freeze to death in winter. Others are blown apart when trying to cross the minefields that are a consequence of past conflict between Greece and Turkey. The number of immigrant deaths is so large that several Muslim graveyards in nearby towns have refused to bury any more bodies.


                            A graveyard for immigrants and asylum seekers in the village of Sidiro.



                            FOR THE TENS of thousands lucky enough to make it to Greece, life is tough. There is no access to social welfare or housing. Some families with children end up sleeping in parks or in disused railway carriages, scavenging for food from bins. As I arrive to visit to one of the many soup kitchens run by churches in Athens, hungry immigrants are struggling to secure their spot in the long queue for food.

                            “About 65 per cent of the people who come here have nowhere to sleep. They get no money or food from the state. We give them mattresses and clothes twice a week,” says Nikos Voutsinos, chairman of the Caritas Athens Refugee Programme. “I’ve been here five years, and it’s always been a crisis. But it is worse now.”

                            The conditions in Greece prompted the European Court of Human Rights to rule in January that the country violated an Afghan asylum seeker’s human rights. The man was transferred to Greece from Belgium under EU rules that force asylum seekers to make their claim for protection in the first EU state they arrive in. On his return to Greece he was imprisoned in a cell with 20 others, with little access to toilet facilities or food. He was later released and left destitute in Athens.

                            Most EU states have now suspended transfers to Greece, but progress towards a common EU asylum policy by 2012 is stalled because member states without an external EU border fear that changing the rules would attract more asylum seekers.

                            But for Nirwais, his wife, two sons and daughter, change to the EU and Greek asylum rules can’t come quick enough. They share a small two-bedroom apartment in Athens with 14 other adults and three children. He takes me into one of the bedrooms and pours a cup of mint tea. It is a room of three metres by four metres, which his family shares with another family. On warm days one or two of them sleep on a balcony.

                            Desperate to escape Athens he paid his last €1,000, from the sale of his home in Afghanistan, to a trafficker to take his family to Italy. They boarded an Italian-bound wooden boat called the Hasan Reis early this year. On January 16th the ship sank in heavy seas near Corfu, with the loss of 22 of its 263 passengers, all Afghans.

                            “My wife’s brother died when the rescue ship pulled alongside our wooden boat. He got trapped between the two ships. His body has never been found,” says Nirwais, who believes he is now unlikely to escape Greece and give his family a new life. “I think I made the wrong decision in leaving Afghanistan. Death by the Taliban is better than this life. All I wanted was to get an education for my children. But here they can’t even go to school. We are losing hope.”

                            April 30, 2011

                            Comment

                            • Onur
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 2389

                              #29
                              Violence broke out between police and immigrants fleeing an overcrowded holding centre on the Italian island of Lampedusa. Officers in riot gear used clubs against detained refugees making a break for freedom. The island has been overwhelmed by more than 40 thousand Tunisians and Lybians fleeing unrest back home;

                              Dramatic Video: EU cops violent with immigrants - YouTube

                              Comment

                              • DirtyCodingHabitz
                                Member
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 835

                                #30
                                40 thousand? well I think Italy has the right to use force to protect their country from immigrants. But it would be better if they just deport them instead of beating them.

                                Comment

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