United Macedonia Diaspora

[Risto the Great]

Maslinka, You have no win no pay remember?

Prolet, I wouldn't count on that approach. No win no pay is for cases that have a very high chance of winning. Matters like this are very much subject to public and political sentiment at any point in time. You will not find any lawyers willing to gamble like that.

[Risto the Great]

Thanks Rogi, I had been meaning to look it up. Well, a vote of support for this is a vote for the Framework Agreement, that is obvious:

7. Stresses the utmost importance of improving inter-ethnic relations, including guaranteeing the rights of people from all ethnic backgrounds, by continuing to implement the Ohrid Framework Agreement, which is the cornerstone of inter-ethnic relations in the country; calls on all the communities and their leaders to respect the sensitivities of other groups and in particular to refrain from using inflammatory language and provocative symbolism undermining the role of other ethnic groups; stresses, moreover, the importance of education in the integration process and, in this connection, calls on the authorities to phase out the practice of ethnically separated shifts in schools;

Provocative symbolism in this instance appears to be limited to within the country, at which point it would appear the ethnic Albanians are the ones using inappropriate symbolism. I cannot see how the Macedonians are doing anything wrong in this manner, however, who knows what they are really getting at.

Ethnically separated shifts in schools are a product of the Ohrid Framework Agreement .... what a double edged sword Macedonians are continually forced to play with.

8. Draws particular attention to the ongoing process of decentralisation, which is an important step in terms of helping the country to function better and improving inter-ethnic relations; stresses that, in order to ensure the successful implementation of this process, municipalities must be provided with sufficient funds to carry out their new tasks, and that their capacity to perform the competences transferred must be enhanced;

Encouraging federalisation. Why not just install a monarchy in Illirida ... ridiculous.

29. Recalls that, in accordance with the relevant European Council conclusions of 19 and 20 June 2008 and those of the General Affairs and Foreign Affairs Councils of 7 and 8 December 2008 and 8 December 2009, maintaining good neighbourly relations, including a negotiated and mutually acceptable solution on the name issue, continues to be essential;

30. Welcomes, to this end, the new, more positive climate between the governments of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and Greece following the recent elections in Greece and, in particular, the recent meetings between the two prime ministers; encourages the two countries to redouble their efforts at the highest level, especially in the framework of UN negotiations, in order to find a mutually satisfactory solution to the name issue, under the auspices of the UN, and stresses that the European Union should be ready to assist in the negotiation process; notes with concern the use of historical arguments in the current debate, including the recent phenomenon of so-called "antiquisation", which is liable to increase tensions with neighbours and create new internal divisions;

Still forcing something on us in complete violation of fundamental human rights. Something new is the term "antiquisation" ... suggesting the EU has only recently seen this phenomena. Suggesting Macedonia is the recent contributor to this process. UMD policy supports this kind of EU admonishment (historical arguments, too much nationalism etc)... but this is hardly fair given the Greeks hide behind far less far longer in this regard. This cannot be supported by Macedonians in any way and is demeaning to our identity.

32. Underlines the importance of reconciliation and understanding in the region, which are part and parcel of European values and principles, and encourages the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and neighbouring countries to engage actively in developing and implementing confidence-building measures in the fields of education and cross-border cooperation and generating a common understanding of history; calls on the authorities of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and neighbouring countries to avoid actions and statements which might adversely affect such efforts; notes that joint celebrations of common historic events with neighbouring EU Member States contribute to a better understanding of history and the maintenance of good neighbourly relations;

A common understanding of history? Get real, Macedonia will never accept 6000 years of Greek glory. Who does?

33. Calls on the authorities in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to take the necessary measures to discourage "hate speech" relating to neighbouring EU Member States in the media and similar statements in school textbooks;

I think examples need to be given to prove such "hateful" moments. I am positive Greece has the upper hand in this regard.




... My advice, we are dealing with an organisation that seeks to erode our identity for the sniff of financial gain. It is nothing more than a sniff and too much is at stake for Macedonians to buckle under this kind of attack. Utterly shameful is my opinion and it must not be supported by any Macedonian least of all the Macedonian Diaspora.

[Risto the Great]

A vote for the EU is a vote for the framework agreement. In fact it is even worse than the framework agreement on its own in my opinion. And that is saying something.

[Prolet]

Risto, How can you be so sure?? Mike Rann said he stood by his statements which means he isnt denying what he said, if thats not being caught red handed i dont know what is. It not like the Prosecution will need to prove anything its all there.

[Risto the Great]

Prolet, you must barrack for Collingwood. Everything is black & white to you.

Once Rann says he sticks to what he said, now the courts will have to interpret what he meant by what he said. (There are some other colours you might have to know about)

[Prolet]

No win no pay is for cases that have a very high chance of winning

Risto, What do you call this?? There is video footage of it all its not like a rumor being spread around here.

The Opposition will have a field day with this and our Embassy will formally make a protest and as a result they will argue that Australia lost a vote in the Security Council seat thanks to these discriminatory comments by Mr Rann.

[Pavel]

prolet, please try to understand. Rann said what he said but that doesnt mean the courts will agree that it was racial discrimination. when someone goes to court for things like these there are no guarantees. its a fifty fifty chance either way. and lawyers are expensive. till the human rights commissioner responds to the amhrc not much is going to happen.

[Prolet]

Pavel, I understand what you mean, but keep in mind that this is much more then a racial discrimination case this has caused a diplomatic row here and Australia's reputation on human rights is suffering internationally now, dont forget what happened with the Indian Students this is just the icing on the cake.

Mr Rann directly mentioned our President Gjorgje Ivanov.

[Phoenix]

Risto, What do you call this?? There is video footage of it all its not like a rumor being spread around here.

The Opposition will have a field day with this and our Embassy will formally make a protest and as a result they will argue that Australia lost a vote in the Security Council seat thanks to these discriminatory comments by Mr Rann.

Prolet, you're way off the mark mate...it doesn't matter about the video footage or the message, the opposition will do jack shit because its an issue that is essentially about winning greek votes. The opposition will not stick their necks out in support of the Macedonians for fear that they will anger the larger numbers of greek voters.

It won't even become a "diplomatic incident" because Australia has far more to lose by getting the greek side offside than they do if Macedonia is upset.

People like Rann and Kennett aren't stupid, everything is a calculated risk and in this case it has been evaluated that the fallout from the message can be absorbed by the Macedonian community, whilst maintaining and winning extra greek votes in the process of siding with the greeks.

This leaves very little room for the Macedonians to persue justice, other than through the court system which is expensive and uncertain in these matters...

[Prolet]

Phoenix, Who is stopping Mike Rann from Supporting the Gjupci? Its his choice however there is no need to shit all over us is there?? His comments were racist and disgusting why should we as a community have to put up with that??

Lets not forget that our community helped build Australia, we have done alot for this country and what did we get in return?? Our name and Identity is being denied, Australia is the only country in the world that labeled us as Slav Macedonians and that we speak a Slav Macedonian Language. Why should we have to put up with that? Za Sramota

[Rogi]

What does Australia have to lose by getting the Greek side offside?

Firstly, Greece is broke and now holds no international diplomatic leverage.

Secondly, trade between Australia and Greece is quite low (less than $250m with Australian exports to Greece only around $70m).

Thirdly, Greece is a member of the European Union and as such, the EU understanding of 'solidarity' requires Greece to support EU nations (Luxembourg) over anyone else in terms of things like UN Security Council seats and so on.


From every indicator I can find, Greece too, is not that important to Australia.
It is purely the Greek lobby in Australia. Nothing else really to it.

[Prolet]

Thats right Rogi

Its the Greek lobby nothing more, its not like anybody is asking Mike Rann to have a go at the Greeks here we are only asking him to respect all ethnic minorities in Australia.

Rogi, You spoke of EU support, what about Finland they are in the race too remember?? Finland is an EU country.

[Rogi]

Luxembourg is a founding member and there seems to be a pecking order within the EU.

[makedonche]

There is no opinion piece, this was a mistake on part of UMD. Get over it. There is no need for 3 pages of non-sense quite frankly. UMD corrected the flyer weeks ago. If someone had an issue, they should have brought it to the attention of UMD by e-mailing UMD at [email protected] or calling any of the below numbers.

Thanks for the response. Quite frankly as a paying member and supporter of UMD I find this response inadequate and somewhat offensive, all issues regarding Macedonia, Macedonians etc. are important to me and deserve UMD's attention, given that UMD post here and release new threads I would have thought an earlier response was forthcoming in a more appropriate manner.

[Phoenix]

What does Australia have to lose by getting the Greek side offside?

Firstly, Greece is broke and now holds no international diplomatic leverage.

Secondly, trade between Australia and Greece is quite low (less than $250m with Australian exports to Greece only around $70m).

Thirdly, Greece is a member of the European Union and as such, the EU understanding of 'solidarity' requires Greece to support EU nations (Luxembourg) over anyone else in terms of things like UN Security Council seats and so on.


From every indicator I can find, Greece too, is not that important to Australia.
It is purely the Greek lobby in Australia. Nothing else really to it.

Rogi, you answered your own question...the greek lobby is more important to Australian politicians than the Macedonian lobby secondly there are far more greeks that are entrenched in the political system in Australia, this is why opportunistic politicians will always pander to the australian greek community ahead of our own...that's why no australian politician will want to get on the wrong side of the greeks in this country.