United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • machorot
    Junior Member
    • May 2010
    • 78

    Originally posted by vodenka View Post
    We also try to get collaboration with Macedonians in Bulgaria and Albania, so we can show unity and common goals, as common are also our problems. If things are changing, they never change by themselves or by chance but because some people are working hard for this changes to happen, even if their work is not so spectacular or get immediate results.
    If you are trying to show 'unity', why not collaborate with your brothers and sisters from Vinozhito?

    Division will only be detrimental to your cause, that is, unless you have a different agenda......

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8531

      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      If you want, you might even just try to reconcile why UMD says it is fighting for the Macedonian Cause and then people like Meto agree with others who believe Macedonians should "just get over their name issue" and do whatever it takes to get into NATO for example.

      One persons Macedonian Cause appears to be quite different to others. Especially when you don't define it.
      After his disasterous campaign a few months back for Macedonia to join NATO as FYROM, Meto put out a media release saying that Macedonia shouldn't join NATO or the EU until they accept our name. Now he's backflipped again and is starting a let us into the EU under FYROM campaign.
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • damian
        Banned
        • Jun 2012
        • 191

        Originally posted by Makedonska_Kafana View Post
        strictly, a voluntary position with no financial or personal gain. (meto gets paid)

        as, a proud macedonian i want to make sure everyone here understands the "truth" about macedonian/greek politics.

        both, sides play a game where their citizens will always lose. is, the greece of 2012 the same as the greece of 1975? not, even close. today, you can freely do things that not long ago would have placed you behind bars or even worse. how, much of the hatred today comes from the greek orthodox church? consider, the GOC is the government so you make the call ..

        Evgenija, was doing EVERYTHING the UMD had failed to do and now she must be more political by default of this appointment -- see agenda

        QUESTION

        WHY, AS MACEDONIAN'S DO WE CONTINUE TO FOCUS MAINLY ON MATTERS WHICH WE HAVE ZERO CONTROL, POLITICS? I, HAVE SAID IT 100,000,000 TIMES AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN .. LEAVE THE POLITICS TO THE POLITICIANS AND STRICTLY FOCUS ON MACEDONIAN CULTURE AND LANGUAGE.

        OUR, MACEDONIAN DIASPORA IS VERY IMPORTANT AND NOT MUCH TIME LEFT ON THE CLOCK.
        Kafana if you leave politics to professional politicians then the doom will come...

        Comment

        • vodenka
          Member
          • Mar 2009
          • 297

          I did not say UMD just sent a few letters and by this it achieved something. Just visit its internet site to get more information about its activities. I said I wrote some letters, with their help.

          Instead of asking me what I or my group has achieved (I have told you what we have done, up today), give me some examples of what other Macedonian organization have achieved in the past. Of course, I know that there are many activists in the Diaspora that work hard in many fields and have achieved very good results in informing and educating people about Macedonians (books, historical research, cultural events, etc). All of them are well known and their work highly appreciated for being successful. But organizations? Which one has done the difference, more then UMD?
          As about Vinozhito, how could we collaborate with fans of Crvenkovski and Georgievski political line? The soft line, which says we should not care about Macedonian ancient history and leave this to the Greeks, that we are slavs (actually, foreign people to Macedonia!!!) and whoever is following Gruevski on his national politics is a dangerous nationalist.
          Quote
          Најлесно е човек да флертува со национализам, да зборува за борби за големи Македонии и на крајот што, вели Павле Филипов Васкопулос.

          "...Не сакаме да зборуваме агресивно за
          Егејска Македонија, за Бело Море, за
          неослободување, окупации и слично.
          Најлесно е некој човек да флертува
          националистички со такви идеологии, да
          зборува за борби за големи Македонии, и
          на крајот што, вели Павле Филипов
          Васкопулос..."

          "We don't want to talk aggressively about Egejska Makedonija, Belo
          More, about neo-liberation, occupation and such. It's easy for someone
          to flirt with nationalism and those kinds of ideologies, to speak of
          wars for greater Macedonia, and at the end, what?, said PV"
          Unquote
          A party that has a leader who declares as “aethnos”- belonging to no-nation- and that considers us as dangerous nationalists (dangerous to whom, he does not explain but greek ulta-nationalist newspapers wrote that Vinozhito people are (compared to us) those who “are most moderate in their views about Macedonia’ s name issue and not only on that”. Well, when such statements come from Greek nationalists, I would worry!
          NATO and EU membership is a very difficult issue that can not be solved by Diaspora activists. It is a matter that only Macedonian government can handle. We, of course, each one of us, may have its own opinion on this issue.

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            Vodenka,

            I haven't seen anything of use come from UMD and you are unable to name ONE achievment.

            Have you been able to work out how UMD defines the Macedonian cause? Do you agree with UMD's position that Macedonia should join NATO and the EU as FYROM?
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • vodenka
              Member
              • Mar 2009
              • 297

              You are free to choose not to help or follow UMD, if you cannot see what they are achieving! No problem.

              I am in no position to decide for the Republic of Macedonia citizens and their government what is best for them. I can be just grateful to them that they did not gave up on the name issue with Greece (paying themselves the consequences of this line) for their state and our national name. The only thing I can do is help them to keep fighting for the final recognition of our nation as Macedonian and the state with its legal name Republic of Macedonia. If they had decided to have a different government (more "soft" on the national issues) tell me how could I stop them?

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Originally posted by vodenka View Post
                You are free to choose not to help or follow UMD, if you cannot see what they are achieving! No problem.

                I am in no position to decide for the Republic of Macedonia citizens and their government what is best for them. I can be just grateful to them that they did not gave up on the name issue with Greece (paying themselves the consequences of this line) for their state and our national name. The only thing I can do is help them to keep fighting for the final recognition of our nation as Macedonian and the state with its legal name Republic of Macedonia. If they had decided to have a different government (more "soft" on the national issues) tell me how could I stop them?
                Vodenka, are you saying that you have no idea what UMD stands for, that you cannot provide one example of a UMD achievement towards the Macedonian cause and that you don't know whether you agree with UMD's position that Macedonia join NATO and the EU as FYROM?

                These are really simple questions, surely you know what you support or don't support and why you have joined UMD don't you?
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • vodenka
                  Member
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 297

                  For what I am concerned I disagree for Macedonia to be still called the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in the UN!!!! Do you have a good idea how we can change this? Or, at least. what we can do to help to change this? I do not see much political activity going on, except UMD. just protesting, it will not do!

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8531

                    Originally posted by vodenka View Post
                    For what I am concerned I disagree for Macedonia to be still called the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in the UN!!!! Do you have a good idea how we can change this? Or, at least. what we can do to help to change this? I do not see much political activity going on, except UMD. just protesting, it will not do!
                    Vodenka, you need to inform yourself much better. UMD supports Macedonia's membership in the EU and NATO as FYROM. So what exactly is it doing? You claim to oppose the FYROM terminology, yet you have joined an organisation that just led a campaign for Macedonia to join NATO as FYROM and only days ago release and press release calling on Macedonian membership of the EU, which it has applied for as FYROM.

                    You're not making any sense.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • vodenka
                      Member
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 297

                      There was a proposal from EU by which Macedonia could enter the Union with its provisional name as it is agreed in the Interim Agreement, and Greece still opposed it. EU, after the International Court verdict, says that Macedonia has to agree with Greece on a common acceptable name for the country to enter EU and not as was agreed by the Interim Agreement, stating that the Court verdict has no validity!!!!! Why can you not understand that no matter what Macedonians (Republic of Macedonia, UMD, Meto Koloski, you or me) say, there is no will to accept Macedonia in NATO and EU. A reason that they do not accept Macedonia it could be the divicion of the politicians in the republic. How can someone take seriously a government when the opposition is talking of compromise names like "Northern Macedonia"? They pass a very wrong message like a big part of Macedonians do not care about the name of the republic and could be very accomodating to the Greek demands. So, why foreigners should risk their good relations with Greece for a country who still discuss internally their own name?
                      If EU cannot or does not want to apply the Interim Agreement of the UN, than the only name Macedonia can enter EU and NATO is Republic of Macedonia. That is what UMD said, which is also the Macedonian government position, I guess.
                      Last edited by vodenka; 07-10-2012, 06:42 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8531

                        Originally posted by vodenka View Post
                        There was a proposal from EU by which Macedonia could enter the Union with its provisional name as it is agreed in the Interim Agreement, and Greece still opposed it. EU, after the International Court verdict, says that Macedonia has to agree with Greece on a common acceptable name for the country to enter EU and not as was agreed by the Interim Agreement, stating that the Court verdict has no validity!!!!! Why can you not understand that no matter what Macedonians (Republic of Macedonia, UMD, Meto Koloski, you or me) say, there is no will to accept Macedonia in NATO and EU. A reason that they do not accept Macedonia it could be the divicion of the politicians in the republic. How can someone take seriously a government when the opposition is talking of compromise names like "Northern Macedonia"? They pass a very wrong message like a big part of Macedonians do not care about the name of the republic and could be very accomodating to the Greek demands. So, why foreigners should risk their good relations with Greece for a country who still discuss internally their own name?
                        If EU cannot or does not want to apply the Interim Agreement of the UN, than the only name Macedonia can enter EU and NATO is Republic of Macedonia. That is what UMD said, which is also the Macedonian government position, I guess.
                        Vodenka, I think you are very confused. You should probably read UMD's press releases and campaign material. UMD wanted Macedonia to be accepted into NATO at the Chicago summit. The only name that could happen under is FYROM. Do you, or do you not support UMD's position on this. Simple question, try and answer it without the irrelevant rant.
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • vodenka
                          Member
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 297

                          I am with the Macedonian government that did what it could to change the decision taken by NATO in Bucharest, and in Chicago tried to get Macedonia into NATO with the provisional name. It was a decision taken by the Macedonian government, not UMD. The same goes for EU. I personally think that it will be much easier for Macedonia to solve this irrational name issue with Greece, when Macedonia will be an equal member inside these organizations and work from there against Greece's claims. From the outside, there is very little Macedonians can do. And even this little we could do, we do not do it.

                          Of course, you are free to disagree with the above.
                          Last edited by vodenka; 07-10-2012, 07:37 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8531

                            Originally posted by vodenka View Post
                            I am with the Macedonian government that did what it could to change the decision taken by NATO in Bucharest, and in Chicago tried to get Macedonia into NATO with the provisional name. It was a decision taken by the Macedonian government, not UMD. The same goes for EU. I personally think that it will be much easier for Macedonia to solve this irrational name issue with Greece, when Macedonia will be an equal member inside these organizations and work from there against Greece's claims. From the outside, there is very little Macedonians can do. And even this little we could do, we do not do it.

                            Of course, you are free to disagree with the above.
                            Of course I disagree and so do the vast majority of diaspora Macedonians. Can you explain do me how Macedonia would be an "equal" member of NATO/EU under the terms of the Interim Accord and the FYROM terminology?

                            Is NATO/EU membership more important to you than Macedonian sovereignty and human rights? Because accepting NATO/EU membership under those conditions completely contradicts what you claim to be fighting for - human rights for the Macedonian people. I can see how you fit in well with UMD.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Phoenix
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 4671

                              Originally posted by vodenka View Post
                              I am with the Macedonian government that did what it could to change the decision taken by NATO in Bucharest, and in Chicago tried to get Macedonia into NATO with the provisional name. It was a decision taken by the Macedonian government, not UMD. The same goes for EU. I personally think that it will be much easier for Macedonia to solve this irrational name issue with Greece, when Macedonia will be an equal member inside these organizations and work from there against Greece's claims. From the outside, there is very little Macedonians can do. And even this little we could do, we do not do it.

                              Of course, you are free to disagree with the above.
                              Vodenka, how can Macedonia ever be considered an "equal" of any self respecting, sovereign nation when it continues to put its identity on the negotiating table for the promise of fools gold.

                              It may have been the decision of the Macedonian Government to persue membership under the provisional name but its your organisation that continues to 'support' the Macedonian Government in this madness.

                              Earlier you mentioned the role of Macedonia's opposition in accommodating alternative names and how this sends mixed signals to the Western Europeans, but how is that any different to the mixed messages your organisation is sending to both the diaspora and anyone else prepared to listen...

                              Comment

                              • vodenka
                                Member
                                • Mar 2009
                                • 297

                                You are forgetting that the people in Macedonia (socialists) who signed the Interim Agreement are those who are proposing now a name change for the state. If you think there is a better way out of this mess, you can make proposals to the Macedonian government.
                                Anyway, even if I think that Macedonia would be better if it could get into NATO and EU for its own interests as a country, with the provisional name, the major problem that has to be solved now is the official name in UN. There must be a way to change the FYROM thing with the name that the people of Macedonia chose for their country and all Macedonians must work to find a solution, one for all. This should be a demand of the macedonian nation in its whole, not just a question of a state's name as the international community has put it because of Greece. First of all, we should complain every time Greece uses the name "Skopians" to define all Macedonians, all over the world! The Slav-macedonian definition that is largerly used, is also very offensive and false: we are not Slavs just because our language is a slavic one. After all, in our language Slav-slavej means glorious and that it would make slav Macedonians=glorious Macedonians. I do not think this can be used as a national/ethnic name! So, this also has to be stopped. It is very wrong to think that we need to wait the name issue of the republic to be solved to claim the respect everyone must show to our national name and to our people, Greeks included.
                                Last edited by vodenka; 07-10-2012, 09:43 AM.

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