United Macedonia Diaspora

[Risto the Great]

Are you suggesting UMD will be a political party in Greece Vodenka?

[vodenka]

Of course not! But UMD is doing a lot in a political level, while Rainbow, as a political party, is doing little and has achieved even less, in Egejska or in EU, for Macedonians' rights.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Of course not! But UMD is doing a lot in a political level, while Rainbow, as a political party, is doing little and has achieved even less, in Egejska or in EU, for Macedonians' rights.

Care to provide some examples?

[Zakynthian]

Care to provide some examples?

Rainbow did not participate in the last 2 general elections.

I'm not sure, I have to research it first, but I thinck some of the Rainbow executives allied with dimiourgia-drasi-fileleytheri symmaxia a three party alliance of neoliberals which did not succeed the 3% threshold

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Rainbow did not participate in the last 2 general elections.

I'm not sure, I have to research it first, but I thinck some of the Rainbow executives allied with dimiourgia-drasi-fileleytheri symmaxia a three party alliance of neoliberals which did not succeed the 3% threshold

I was referring moreso to the achievements of UMD in regards to the political sphere. You'll find that many of us here are critical and careful in our analysis of the UMD. Looking into some of their past policy and official statements will show you why.

If they can bring something positive to the Macedonian minority in Greece then fair play, but I want to see evidence first before people begin to discredit Vinozhito.

[Zakynthian]

Are you suggesting UMD will be a political party in Greece Vodenka?

There are a few criteria to establish a political party. first you need to collect 5000 signatures of greek citizens who support the draft founding decision. the statute of the party among with the records of signatures are then payed to the specific authority which licenses the newly founded party to participate. the right for beeing elected as a representative is only for greek citizens who are 18 years old and in case of male candidates they should have served in the army or legaly excluded of prescription. in the case of regional elections EU citizens who are residing in greece for more then 18 months and legal immigrants can also participate and beeing elected.

[Zakynthian]

I was referring moreso to the achievements of UMD in regards to the political sphere. You'll find that many of us here are critical and careful in our analysis of the UMD. Looking into some of their past policy and official statements will show you why.

If they can bring something positive to the Macedonian minority in Greece then fair play, but I want to see evidence first before people begin to discredit Vinozhito.

I don't know much about the UMD, just a few things I read at this forum, I don't thinck they are in position to do something to grant more rights for the minority. On the other hand the Rainbow party is not active in the rest of Greece, I thinck it is known only in Florina and Kastoria or anyway in a few parts in Northern Greece. They should take more actions in other parts of the country, otherwise they will stay selfexcluded which is a loss-loss for everyone.

[Louis]

Actually you need 200 (not 5000) signatures to establish a political party in Greece.

Congratulations to Vodenka, even though we all have our (personal) reservations. Here's mine. How can you represent Macedonian Diaspora IN Macedonia? Don't you have to depart first?

[Risto the Great]

Of course not! But UMD is doing a lot in a political level, while Rainbow, as a political party, is doing little and has achieved even less, in Egejska or in EU, for Macedonians' rights.

UMD is based in Washington USA. They have not even convinced USA to let Macedonia be called Macedonia. Instead we get USA telling Macedonia it needs to move forward and have a mutually acceptable name. UMD should work harder in USA.

UMD (on a political level) in Greece is non existent and Rainbow is definitely more prominent in this regard, no matter how minor the influence appears to be.

Vodenka did you consider, or at least confirm all of UMD's policies before joining them?

I lost faith in them because I (as a former member) could not get straight answers to simple questions. I also saw numerous actions which were completely opposed to apparent statements of policy.

I fear a personality clash has led you to flee Rainbow and end up with UMD. The question is whether that should be enough motivation to join a group with such an inconsistent track record.

[vodenka]

1) UMD members are among those who helped a lot our group and our few but important activities, up today.

2) I am not the representative of all Macedonian Diaspora but only of the UMD organization

3) I have been collaborating with UMD since 2006 and I believe that they have achieved many things, in the last years. If there are Macedonian organizations that are more active and with better results, I am afraid I am not informed. Anyway, I believe that for any action taken, timing is very important. I am sure that today we all can do much more that what it was possible, say, 20 or 10 years ago because many actions need some time to get a concrete (positive or negative) result. Eventually, good work will show good results, sooner or later, but someone has to work hard, always, and never give up. When we work inside an organization, we may not agree with all its actions or aims. The results at the end will show if it is worth the trouble working with the group or not. UMD has shown some good results. Vinozhito has shown some disastrous results; a party that at its very first elections, under very hard conditions, managed to get almost 10,000 votes and after 15 years it gets hardly 2,500 in Egejska, you cannot say it’s a good result. And what are the political activities of the party the last 5 years, for example? The Voden group has “stirred the waters” by its small activities, more than Vinozhito, in the last 3 years!

[Vangelovski]

Vodenka, what exactly is it that you think UMD has achieved. Give us one example and why you think it is important for the cause.

In fact, while you're at it, perhaps you would like to tell us what you believe that cause is? Maybe you could even be the first at UMD to try to explain what UMD actually stands for?

[vodenka]

Our most important issue we have to focus on is the recognition of our nation. We know why Greece created the Republic of Macedonia’s name issue and the proof is that Greece never had a problem with the name of the same republic when it was part of Yugoslavia. And you know why? Because the citizens of Macedonia in Yugoslavia were recognized internationally as Yugoslavians and not Macedonians. This means that Greece has a problem with our nation, wherever it is and lives, not just about the citizens of the republic and its name. What we have to do about it? All Macedonians from all parts of Macedonia and the Diaspora must claim our rights as a nation and first of all the right to use officially our national name. This issue has to be disconnected by the state name issue. The government of Macedonia has the duty to keep the name of Macedonia for the state but we all have the duty to keep our national name as Macedonians. In Greece, for instance, it is not possible to talk on the media about the Gypsies anymore: they have to call them with their official name which is Rom or Roma, but we all accept Greeks calling us Skopians or Fyromians and do nothing about it, internationally. Well, only UMD (characterized by Greek-Americans as the most dangerous organization against Greece) is doing something and with their help I have done a few things, as writing letters or sending e-mails to politicians or organizations in EU, protesting for their attitude toward the Macedonian people in general, not just the citizens of the republic, and presenting our problems as Macedonians in Greece. We also try to get collaboration with Macedonians in Bulgaria and Albania, so we can show unity and common goals, as common are also our problems. If things are changing, they never change by themselves or by chance but because some people are working hard for this changes to happen, even if their work is not so spectacular or get immediate results.

[Big Bad Sven]

Our most important issue we have to focus on is the recognition of our nation. We know why Greece created the Republic of Macedonia’s name issue and the proof is that Greece never had a problem with the name of the same republic when it was part of Yugoslavia. And you know why? Because the citizens of Macedonia in Yugoslavia were recognized internationally as Yugoslavians and not Macedonians. This means that Greece has a problem with our nation, wherever it is and lives, not just about the citizens of the republic and its name. What we have to do about it? All Macedonians from all parts of Macedonia and the Diaspora must claim our rights as a nation and first of all the right to use officially our national name. This issue has to be disconnected by the state name issue. The government of Macedonia has the duty to keep the name of Macedonia for the state but we all have the duty to keep our national name as Macedonians. In Greece, for instance, it is not possible to talk on the media about the Gypsies anymore: they have to call them with their official name which is Rom or Roma, but we all accept Greeks calling us Skopians or Fyromians and do nothing about it, internationally. Well, only UMD (characterized by Greek-Americans as the most dangerous organization against Greece) is doing something and with their help I have done a few things, as writing letters or sending e-mails to politicians or organizations in EU, protesting for their attitude toward the Macedonian people in general, not just the citizens of the republic, and presenting our problems as Macedonians in Greece. We also try to get collaboration with Macedonians in Bulgaria and Albania, so we can show unity and common goals, as common are also our problems. If things are changing, they never change by themselves or by chance but because some people are working hard for this changes to happen, even if their work is not so spectacular or get immediate results.

So basically the UMD has done really a good job writing a few letters to the EU?

UMD has made some "huge achievements"? Cool story brah

[Vangelovski]

Well, only UMD (characterized by Greek-Americans as the most dangerous organization against Greece) is doing something and with their help I have done a few things, as writing letters or sending e-mails to politicians or organizations in EU, protesting for their attitude toward the Macedonian people in general, not just the citizens of the republic, and presenting our problems as Macedonians in Greece. We also try to get collaboration with Macedonians in Bulgaria and Albania, so we can show unity and common goals, as common are also our problems.

Writing some letters or sending emails is an everyday activity for many Macedonian activists. You said UMD had actually achieved something. I asked you what. You haven't provided one example.

Maybe you can try and tell us how UMD defines the Macedonian cause? Or is it simply getting Macedonians recognised as Macedonians by the Greek Government?

[Risto the Great]

Maybe you can try and tell us how UMD defines the Macedonian cause?

If you want, you might even just try to reconcile why UMD says it is fighting for the Macedonian Cause and then people like Meto agree with others who believe Macedonians should "just get over their name issue" and do whatever it takes to get into NATO for example.

One persons Macedonian Cause appears to be quite different to others. Especially when you don't define it.