Financial Crisis in Greece

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  • fyrOM
    Banned
    • Feb 2010
    • 2180

    What's The Real Reason Behind NAB's Glitch?

    Monday 29th November, 2010
    Before your editor carries on today, we'll declare an interest in today's article.
    Thanks to last week's so-called computer glitch at National Australia Bank [ASX: NAB], your editor hasn't been paid.
    So just bare that in mind in case we get a bit narky this morning – sorry, more narky than usual...
    We notice NAB CEO Cameron Clyne has paid for a full-page ad in today's Australian Financial Review (AFR) – and we dare say other newspapers – apologising to NAB customers for the problem in "processing some payments and transactions.”
    That's nice. But what a dope. Not a single mention of the fact that the glitch has affected non-NAB customers as well.
    According to The Age, "Mr Wright [NAB spokesman] said the accounts of all but 19,000 customers have been fixed.”
    That would be 19,000 NAB customers of course. Not including the hundreds of thousands, probably millions of customers at other banks where transactions haven't been received due to the NAB's stuff up.
    But here's the thought that ran through your editor's conspiratorial brain over the weekend... is this whole mess really the fault of a computer glitch? Or is it something much more serious than that?
    I mean seriously, a corrupted file bringing down an entire bank's systems. We wouldn't have thought so.
    Clearly they don't have the calibre of IT staff at the NAB that most IT helpdesks have. We wonder if the NAB has tried switching its machines off and back on again... or the ultimate solution, if they've tried unplugging the machine, waiting thirty seconds and then plugging it back in.
    That usually seems to work when the printer in the office doesn't work or when the wireless router has gone haywire.
    Anyway, perhaps we're naοve, but we thought the mega-banks had disaster recovery sites, and data back-up thingies, and erm, other technology stuff that helps prevent something bad from happening.
    The banks spent millions making sure all their systems were prepared for Y2K. And the banks have been heralded as safe and sound thanks to their – albeit taxpayer guaranteed bailouts – escape from the global financial meltdown.
    Yet according to The Age, "NAB did not know the correct balances on some accounts in its investment banking division.”
    And now you're expected to believe that a "corrupted file” has caused the bank's entire payment and processing system to collapse.
    But then again, maybe it's just a coincidence that the NAB's computers should encounter a glitch at the time the Irish banks are being bailed out by European taxpayers.
    Surely there's no connection between NAB's former ownership of National Irish Bank, which admittedly it did sell to Danske Bank in 2004. But despite that being six years ago, can it be entirely discounted that there aren't some hangover assets or liabilities still on the bank's balance sheet?
    According to Terry McCrann over at the Herald Sun, "NAB has had to provide around $1.2 billion for loan losses in its two small British banks.” This refers to NAB's current ownership of Clydesdale Bank and Yorkshire Bank.
    And what about the reports at the end of last year that, "National Australia Bank has amassed a $12.78 billion indirect exposure to the debt-laden Italian Government...”
    The report in the Herald Sun in December 2009 claimed:
    "NAB is believed to have been issued up to $12.78 billion worth of Italian bonds as collateral for taking on that obligation.
    "The bank is exposed because if it has to take up the lending obligation it will be relying on the value of those Italian bonds as compensation.”
    Then this:
    "Disclosure of the exposure comes as ratings agencies have cast a spotlight on the rising risk of southern European governments defaulting on loan repayments to international lenders.”
    You can see from the chart below how that the yield on Italian two-year bonds has soared from 1.5% to over 2.5% over the last twelve months:

    Source: Bloomberg
    Most of that gain in yield has come in the last month as doubts about the ability of European nations to honour their debts grows.
    But why is a rising bond yield bad? It's not if you don't own the bonds and you want to buy them, but if you already own them you take a hit on the capital. Bond prices move in the opposite direction to bond yields.
    If the yield rises then the price falls. And vice versa. As for the NAB's current exposure to the Italian debt, according to a May 8th article in The Age, NAB's exposure to the Italian bonds was down to $5.5 billion, "most of this in short-term maturities.”
    Based on the chart above, if the NAB has sold down its position further it will have taken a hit on the transactions as bond prices have fallen since December 2009.
    Of course, that's not all. The NAB would have copped it from the Aussie dollar increasing against the Euro:

    Source: Yahoo! Finance
    In December 2009, $12.78 billion would have been worth about EUR7.92 billion. Today EUR7.92 billion is only worth $11.01 billion.
    Of course NAB doesn't have the same exposure today as it did then. And the loss isn't huge. Not when you compare it to the total size of the bank's balance sheet.
    But the important thing to remember with banks is that it's not the size of the total balance sheet that's important, because that's all built on leverage.
    Leverage gained by taking depositor money, claiming that it's held safely in a deposit account which is available on demand, meanwhile the bank is creating the same amount of money as credit and gambling it on an overpriced housing market and European sovereign debt...
    Sovereign debt that turns out to be not as good an investment as originally thought.
    So, as with all leverage, seemingly small losses are magnified. A $1 billion loss on a bond transaction may seem small against the total leveraged position, but compared to the bank's shareholder equity the loss is more significant.
    Then add in the cash to bailout its two British banks... and it's starting to add up. And we're still only half-way through the story.
    And is it really stretching the imagination to think the bank's exposure to Ireland could be just as bad? I mean, the NAB did own a couple of banks on the island.
    You'd think it would have some legacy investments there.
    Below is a chart stretching back to 2006 that shows the yield on an Irish government 10-year bond:

    Source: Bloomberg
    Even just in the last couple of months the yield has soared from below 5% to over 9%. Remember that a soaring yield means a plummeting price.
    According to a May 8th report in The Age:
    "Australian banks' exposure to the euro area is running at just over $56 billion, including more than $3 billion to Spain and $4 billion to Ireland.”
    What's NAB's exposure to this? We've no idea. But based on these numbers, let's say it's a quarter – about $14 billion.
    That includes the roughly $5.5 billion exposure to Italy and then let's say around $1 billion to each of Spain and Ireland.
    But let's not forget, that's only the known direct exposure. What about the unknown indirect exposure? What about investments NAB has in other European banks which do have a larger exposure to Ireland?
    And also take a look at the credit default swap (CDS) spreads on the sovereign debt of Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy:

    Source: Acting-man.com
    In simple terms a CDS is like an insurance policy. It's the market cost to insure against the risk of default.
    As you can see on the chart above, over the past year CDS spreads have bolted higher. For instance, Spain (red line) has seen its CDS spread increase from around 100 basis points (100 basis points is the same as 1%) to over 250 basis points (or 2.5%).
    In other words, insurance costs have taken off. It's reflective of the risk investors see in investing in sovereign debt.
    That's not good news for banks that need to source about 40% of their funding from offshore. In a nutshell, what happens to interest rates in Europe does have an impact on Australian bank interest rates.
    Simply because interest rates don't work in isolation. Interest rates act as a measure of risk to investors. If an investor is choosing between two investments he or she will consider the yield. If one is 5% and the other is 6% the investor would naturally prefer the one yielding 6%.
    However, the 6% investment could be a higher risk than the 5% investment. That's something the investor needs to weigh up and decide if they're prepared to take the risk in return for a higher income.
    But if another firm – say an Australian bank – offers the same risks as the 6% investment, but the Australian bank only wants to pay 5.5%, then it's going to be tough to attract investors.
    Why would any investor accept the same level of risk for a lower yield? They wouldn't.
    To the extent that the Australian bank may have to increase the yield it pays in order to attract investors.
    That feeds back to what the bank charges to borrowers in the Australian market, and how much it can afford to pay depositors.
    In other words, Australia and Australian banks aren't isolated from sovereign and corporate debt problems overseas.
    And let's not forget that NAB has form with dodgy investments. Remember the currency trading scandal a few years back?
    And how about the bank's secret CDO losses that it kept mum about. As the Sydney Morning Herald report a couple of weeks ago:
    "National Australia Bank is facing a class action from shareholders seeking $450 million in losses caused by a share plunge in 2008.”
    And according to the law firm bringing the class action, Maurice Blackburn:
    "Our case is that all of the indicators showing the deterioration in the US sub-prime housing market were available to NAB – it's a bank after all – starting as early in some cases as 2006, going through 2007.”
    Look, maybe it is just a coincidence. Maybe it was a "corrupted file” that caused the bank's systems to meltdown. And maybe NAB will be back to normal tomorrow.
    But what if there is more to it than the bank is letting on? As I say, it wouldn't be the first time NAB has kept quiet.
    The bank didn't think to tell investors about the potential $12.78 billion Italian debt exposure until it was sitting on its books. And it didn't tell anyone about the collateralised debt obligation (CDO) exposure until the last possible moment.
    Why should you assume that NAB has been upfront on its exposure to European debt now, when it wasn't upfront about its exposure to US and European debt two years ago?
    Quite frankly, given the extraordinary lengths the major banks have gone to in recent months to not only deny the existence of a housing bubble, but to keep pumping it higher, it strikes us that the banks will take any step necessary to hide from the market the real extent of their liabilities.
    Could that extend to blaming it on a computer glitch to prevent customers from withdrawing funds?
    Conspiratorial? Maybe.
    Drawing a long bow? Perhaps.
    But based on everything we've seen happen in the market over the last couple of years we wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the real problem for NAB is a question of liquidity rather than a glitch.
    Make no mistake, despite the spin, Aussie banks aren't the conservative and well-managed institutions they and the mainstream media would have you believe.
    Cheers.
    Kris Sayce
    For Money Morning Australia

    Comment

    • Bill77
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 4545

      I got bored and decided to flick through some of my old posts.
      I came across this one by a former MTO member (Alpha) and i laughed so hard, i colapsed and had to be revived



      This was directed at Alpha,

      Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
      I see that the EU helped you guys hahahahahahahahaha


      Originally posted by Alpha View Post
      Sure it did...look at iceland right now. Thats where we would of been without the EU and the Euro. Look at turkey...they are still trying to claw their way to the club without losing face. And they play tough all the time...but at the end of the day they are still knocking on the door. Now THAT is funny....

      Anyway, be carefull what you wish for...you might just get it.
      Yeh you are hilarious

      Anyways, be careful who you mock, it might just bite you on the bum.
      Karma is a beautiful thing.
      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

      Comment

      • Niko777
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2010
        • 1895

        Athens today Dec 15, 2010 - Business as usual

        YouTube - Action video of Greece riots as fire bombs, stones fly in Athens

        Comment

        • Onur
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2010
          • 2389

          Former Greek minister attacked by mob as riots break out in Greece

          Kostis Hatzidakis, who is now an opposition MP, was left with blood pouring from his head after being chased and beaten by dozens of protesters.







          He was set upon by up to 100 youths, who shouted "Thieves" and "Shame on you" when he emerged from the Greek parliament building on Constitution Square, in central Athens.

          Protesters hurled lumps of concrete and paving stones at riot police, set fire to cars and smashed shop fronts.

          The violence in Greece erupted during a general strike called by unions to protest against new labour laws which unions say will give employers too much power and take workers' rights "back to the Middle Ages."

          The 24-hour strike, the seventh this year, also grounded flights, closed factories, disrupted hospitals and shut down trains, ferries and buses across the country.

          An estimated 20,000 protesters marched on parliament. Christmas shoppers fled as rioters wearing black masks and ski goggles hurled petrol bombs wrapped in bundles of firecrackers.

          A similar protest in Greece's second largest city, Thessaloniki, also turned violent.

          Meanwhile riot police in Turkey also clashed with students who were protesting against Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the prime minister, calling for university reform.

          The violence came a day after thousands of demonstrators in Rome went on the rampage when Silvio Berlusconi, the prime minister, survived a no-confidence vote that had threatened to topple his coalition.

          A former government minister was stoned by a mob in Athens s riots broke out in the Greek capital in protest at the government's austerity measures.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            These Greeks should really get a job. Too much time on their hands!
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • fyrOM
              Banned
              • Feb 2010
              • 2180

              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              These Greeks should really get a job. Too much time on their hands!
              crack me up.

              Comment

              • fyrOM
                Banned
                • Feb 2010
                • 2180

                Interesting times with th usa heavily into debt to china and now if the eu goes heavily into debt to china which way th world economy and hence world power going to go.

                Humiliation: China To Bail Out EU



                Thursday, 23 December 2010

                China has said it is willing to bail out debt-ridden countries in the euro zone using its $2.7trillion overseas investment fund.

                In a fresh humiliation for Europe, Foreign Ministry spokesman Jiang Yu said it was one of the most important areas for China's foreign exchange investments.
                The country has already approached struggling European countries with financial aid, including offering to buy Greece's debt in October and promising to buy $4billion of Portuguese government debt.

                'To have any discernible effect China will have to buy a lot more than 5billion euros if they expect to have any impact on the negative sentiment surrounding Europe,' said Michael Hewson, currency analyst at CMC Markets.

                China's astonishing economic growth has put it on track to overtake America as the world's economic powerhouse within two years, a recent report claimed.

                But experts believed still be some years before America's leadership role is really challenged - largely because Beijing has given no indication it is ready to take on the responsibility of shepherding the world' economy.

                This foray into the future of the euro could be a signal from Beijing that it is ready to change that perception.

                The euro rose temporarily on the news of China's support - but was sinking again this morning to a three-week low against the dollar.

                Comment

                • Makedonska_Kafana
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 2642

                  YouTube - Soros: China Must Be Part Of The New World Order
                  http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                  Macedonia for the Macedonians

                  Comment

                  • fyrOM
                    Banned
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 2180

                    Portugal, Hungary and Slovenia credit rating downgraded



                    Saturday, 25 December 2010
                    Portugal had its credit rating downgraded Thursday by the Fitch Ratings agency amid mounting concerns over the country's ability to raise money in the markets to finance its hefty borrowings.

                    Fitch said it was reducing its rating on the country's debt by one notch to A+ from AA- and warned that further downgrades may be in the offing by maintaining its negative outlook.

                    “The downgrade reflects an even slower reduction in the current account deficit and a much more difficult financing environment for the Portuguese government and banks than incorporated into Fitch's previous rating (in March), as well as a deteriorating near-term economic outlook,” Fitch said in a statement.

                    Fitch's downgrade follows a warning earlier this week from rival Moody's Investor Services that it may cut its A1 rating on Portugal by a notch or two because of uncertain economic growth, the high cost of borrowing on global markets and worries about the banking sector.

                    Fitch's reasoning is very similar and is likely to stoke renewed speculation that Portugal could well be the next country using the euro in need of financial help from its partners in the European Union and the International Monetary Fund — Greece and Ireland have already suffered the ignominy of being bailed out.

                    The agency said the Portuguese government would likely meet its target of reducing its budget deficit to 7.3 per cent of national income this year, but voiced concerns that this is heavily dependent on one-time measures, which don't make a dent on the long-term state of the public finances.

                    As a result, Fitch said the government will find it “extremely challenging” getting the budget into shape, especially if, as the agency expects, the economy falls into recession next year.

                    The Portuguese government aims to reduce the budget deficit to 3 per cent of GDP by 2012 and to just 2 per cent of 2013, which would be extremely difficult if the euro zone's smallest economy starts to contract again — in effect, lower growth means lower tax receipts and higher social spending, hardly conducive to budgetary health.

                    “Failure to meet its 2011 budget headline and structural deficit targets would erode confidence in the medium-term sustainability of public finances that underpins Portugal's current sovereign ratings,” Fitch said.

                    Earlier, Fitch downgraded Hungary's debt to one notch above junk status, citing budget plans that it warned are ill-considered but that the country's lawmakers approved soon after on Thursday.

                    Fitch said it was concerned about the government's economic strategy even though it has pledged to get the budget deficit below 3 per cent of national income next year. The agency also said it was concerned that a heavy debt load makes the country particularly vulnerable to global economic shocks.

                    The euro zone's credit position took another hit on Wednesday as the outlook for Slovenia's sovereign foreign currency credit was revised to negative from stable by Standard & Poor's.

                    S&P cited a weakening commitment to budgetary consolidation by the government since the onset in 2008 of a rapid deterioration in public finances.

                    Slovenia's AA rating was affirmed, S&P said in a statement.

                    "We believe that this weakening is evidenced by the government's backloading of its budgetary consolidation strategy to the latter years of its medium-term plan," S&P's statement said.

                    S&P's rating of Slovenia is equal to the investment grade ratings of Aa2 from Moody's Investors Service and AA from Fitch Ratings.

                    The revision to a negative outlook means S&P has given itself a two-year time horizon to decide whether to downgrade the credit.

                    Slovenia joined the European Union in 2004 and adopted the euro as its currency on Jan. 1, 2007. The negative outlook on the credit is the latest piece of troubling credit news for Europe, which is reeling from a debt crisis that resulted in multibillion euro bailouts and eroding confidence in the euro currency.

                    Comment

                    • Bill77
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 4545

                      Neighbors' Diplomatic Budgets.. Greece leader

                      Although Greece has been in disarray for more than 2 years, with daily strikes and what many financial analysts claim to be a bankrupt nation, none of this prevented Athens to have a fantastic 330 million euros annual budget for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
                      The man in charge of the department Dimitris Droutsas will have 16 times more than his Macedonian counterpart Antonio Miloshoski whose Government set his budget for 2011 at 21 million euros.

                      Why does Greece have such a great budget for diplomatic activities, even though is a relatively small country? Do Frckovski, Crvenkovski and Co. charge Athens much more than they used to?
                      It’s interesting to note, Bulgaria and Serbia who are similar to Greece, population wise, have much smaller budgets than Athens for their diplomatic activities.

                      Bulgaria as a member of both EU and NATO is facing numerous obstacles for 2011, and have set their budget at 54m euros, over six times less than Athens. Sofia must convince Brussels to release several funds which the EU stopped after it discovered the funds were misused. It also asked Sofia to greatly reduce its massive levels of corruption.

                      Official Belgrade is also looking at challenges for 2011. It must convince the EU that Serbia should receive a candidate-status, while at the same time negotiate with Pristina and find the alleged war criminal Ratko Mladic. For its diplomatic activities Serbia has allocated 56 million euros.

                      Out of the ex Yugoslav republics, Croatia has the highest budget, with 76 million euros. Montenegro has a budget of 14.5 million, while almost surprisingly, Albania has allocated slightly more than Montenegro at 15.3 million euros for 2011, despite the numerous challenges the country is facing for 2011. Albania received a negative report by the EU reforms-wise, and some of its top politicians are facing a serious probe on human/organ trafficking which has stunned Brussel.

                      Macedonia is not at the bottom, nor at the top, but is sitting in the middle and for 2011 is looking at (costly) lobbying with EU member nations for the ‘name negotiations’ with our financially drained neighbor who always seems to have plenty of resources and money for diplomatic activities vis a vis Macedonia. //Gorazd V.



                      The first part is Funny,

                      The second is sad.
                      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        A lot of our macedonian politicians have been in athens for secret meetings & discussions does anyone think that bribing them would have been part & par for the course considering
                        that bothe greece & macedonia have high levels of corruption going on.Greece only has to divert a slight amount of evra from their defence budget & the can buy out the macedonian politicians.I would not be surprised in the slightest that bribery goes on.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Akzion
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 93

                          Bill77,
                          That's another silly article. These amounts should not be seen as proportional to the population, but to the wealth (and the political priorities) of each country. Here's a list of Gross Domestic Product (in Billion US Dollars). That explains all:

                          Australia 994
                          Greece 330
                          Croatia 67
                          Slovenia 49
                          Bulgaria 48
                          Serbia 43
                          Bosnia and Herzegovina 17
                          Albania 12
                          Macedonia 9,4
                          Kosovo 5,4
                          Montenegro 4,2

                          Comment

                          • Phoenix
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 4671

                            Originally posted by Akzion View Post
                            Bill77,
                            That's another silly article. These amounts should not be seen as proportional to the population, but to the wealth (and the political priorities) of each country. Here's a list of Gross Domestic Product (in Billion US Dollars). That explains all:

                            Australia 994
                            Greece 330
                            Croatia 67
                            Slovenia 49
                            Bulgaria 48
                            Serbia 43
                            Bosnia and Herzegovina 17
                            Albania 12
                            Macedonia 9,4
                            Kosovo 5,4
                            Montenegro 4,2
                            GDP explains jack-shit, greece is bankrupt...it is merely further proof that greece is living beyond its means.
                            Greece is locked in a delusional 'Onassis world', where its oversized and black sunglasses have made it impossible to view the world with any sense of reality. Greece continues to posture in this 'Onassisesque' fashion as if it has power or importance, it continues to divert desperate and limited funding away from social programs into the bottomless pit that is international diplomacy and armed forces.

                            This robbing of socratis to pay aristotle trend is quickly reaching its end game, the country is essentially dead, it just doesn't know it yet...
                            Last edited by Phoenix; 12-30-2010, 07:49 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                              Greece is locked in a delusional 'Onassis world', where its oversized and black sunglasses have made it impossible to view the world with any sense of reality. Greece continues to posture in this 'Onassisesque' fashion as if it has power or importance, it continues to divert desperate and limited funding away from social programs into the bottomless pit that is international diplomacy and armed forces.

                              This robbing of socratis to pay aristotle trend is quickly reaching its end game, the country is essentially dead, it just doesn't know it yet...
                              Socratis is really pissed of about the robbery. Aristotle spent all the money on whores and drugs and Socratis could have really used the money to fund another bribery scam. A real shame about that. Greece needs a Robinos Hoodopoulos to steal from the rich and give to the lazy. Oh hang on, they have been doing that for years ... Germany is Robinos Hoodopoulos.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • Phoenix
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 4671

                                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                                Socratis is really pissed of about the robbery. Aristotle spent all the money on whores and drugs and Socratis could have really used the money to fund another bribery scam. A real shame about that. Greece needs a Robinos Hoodopoulos to steal from the rich and give to the lazy. Oh hang on, they have been doing that for years ... Germany is Robinos Hoodopoulos.
                                That's greeces relationship with the EU in a nutshell...

                                "...steal from the rich and give to the lazy..."

                                bulls-eye, RtG...

                                Comment

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