Financial Crisis in Greece

[Onur]

I wonder, will the Serbs look for excuses to make on behalf of the Greeks? Or will they finally see how plastic this so-called "friendship" really is?

Hehe, so true SOM.

Can anyone name me a one proper unity based solely on religion throughout history! When the things go rough, everyone goes in their own way, to their own profit. Religious unity was/is always fake, no matter if it`s Islam or Christianity. Jihads or crusades, all of those are just lies.

[makedonche]

LOL, poor Bulgars but who the fck was going attack them from Blacksea, the Turks?

I bet their fascist politicians are very disturbed right now and i wont be surprised if they have already started preparations for possible Bulgar defense vs the Turkish naval force in the Blacksea

Bulgars acting like the Greeks in most ways these days.

Onur
HaHaHa!!! Another big benefit of joining the EU, perhaps Turkey can join as well and they won't need their submarines either! lol

[Onur]

Another big benefit of joining the EU, perhaps Turkey can join as well and they won't need their submarines either! lol

Yes, benefit for Bulgars and Greeks but exact opposite for the EU(mainly France and Germany) and USA. If Turkey enters the EU then how come the French and Germans gonna sell billions dollars worth of weapons and equipment to Bulgars and Greeks?

Think wisely my friend They need Turkish bugaboo to sell their weapons to all of us.


Check this out;

The Submarine Deals That Helped Sink Greece
JULY 10, 2010

As Greece slashes spending to avoid default, it hasn't moved to skimp on one area: defense.

The deeply indebted Mediterranean nation, whose financial crisis roiled the global financial system this year, is spending more than a billion euros on two submarines from Germany.

It's also looking to spend big on six frigates and 15 search-and-rescue helicopters from France. In recent years, Greece has bought more than two dozen F16 fighter jets from the U.S. at a cost of more than €1.5 billion.

Much of the equipment comes from Germany, the country that has had to shoulder most of the burden of bailing out Greece and has been loudest in condemning Athens for living beyond its means. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has admonished the Greek government "to do its homework" on debt reduction.

The military deals illustrate how Germany and other creditors have in some ways benefited from Greece's profligacy, and how that is coming back to haunt them.

Greece, with a population of just 11 million, is the largest importer of conventional weapons in Europe—and ranks fifth in the world behind China, India, the United Arab Emirates and South Korea. Its military spending is the highest in the European Union as a percentage of gross domestic product. That spending was one of the factors behind Greece's stratospheric national debt.

The German submarine deal in particular, announced in March as the country lurched toward bankruptcy, has cast a spotlight on the Greek military budget and on the foreign vendors supplying the hardware. The deal includes a total of six subs in a complicated transaction that began a decade ago with German firms.

The arms sales are drawing heat from Turkey, Greece's neighbor and arch-rival. "Even those countries trying to help Greece at this time of difficulty are offering to sell them new military equipment," said Egemen Bagis, Turkey's top European Union negotiator, shortly after the sub deal was announced. "Greece doesn't need new tanks or missiles or submarines or fighter planes, neither does Turkey."

Other European officials have charged France and Germany with making their military dealings with Greece a condition of their participation in the country's huge financial rescue. French and German officials deny the accusations.

In May, Greece's economic crimes unit began investigating all weapons deals of the past decade—totaling about €16 billion—to determine if Greece overpaid or bought unnecessary hardware.

German prosecutors are investigating whether millions of euros in bribes were paid to Greek officials in connection with the sub deal. In May, the chief executive of one of the German companies helping to build the submarines, called Ferrostaal AG, resigned amid the probe.

For some prominent Greeks, the latest submarine deal was the last straw. In late April, Stelios Fenekos, a 52-year-old vice admiral of the 22,000-person strong Greek Navy, resigned his position, bringing a three-decade Navy career to an end. He says he did so to protest the Greek defense minister's decision to purchase the subs, as well as other decisions taken in recent months that Mr. Fenekos considers "politically motivated."

"How can you say to people we are buying more subs at the same time we want you to cut your salaries and pensions?" says Adm. Fenekos, in his first interview with a reporter. He was referring to the government's 5% cut in most pensions and even deeper slashes to public-sector wages enacted in response to the crisis. The Greek Navy, he says, cannot afford to maintain the additional submarines. It currently has eight subs.

A spokesman for the Greek Ministry of Defense said Mr. Fenekos' resignation was accepted. In stepping down, "Mr. Fenekos did not refer to the submarine deal," he said.

Greece became the first battleground in the Cold War, with the U.S. backing anti-Communists in the Greek civil war in the late-1940s against Communist insurgents. The conflict led U.S. President Harry Truman, in 1947, to pledge unlimited military support for nations under Communist threat, known as the Truman Doctrine.

While the rest of Western Europe used U.S. aid to rebuild its economy from the second World War, in Greece, the emphasis was on building up the military.

"Greece became the front line in the Cold War, and that began, right then and there, the Greek economic crisis of today," says Andre Gerolymatos, a professor of Hellenic studies at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver.

By the mid-1950s, the U.S. pulled back aid, much of which had been in the form of military hardware, shifting much of the burden for Greek military spending to Athens.

By this time, Greece's worsening relations with Turkey led to yet more arms spending. Despite being fellow members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the two nations are bitter rivals. The discovery of oil in the northern Aegean Sea and disagreements over territorial waters and airspace became the source of numerous—and expensive—altercations between the two countries.

An incident in 1996, involving a Turkish ship running aground on a rocky, uninhabited Greek islet, almost led to war. Greece later that year announced a 10-year modernization program of its armed services, costing nearly $17 billion.

The U.S. over the years catered to the two NATO members under a 7:10 ratio, meaning for every $7 million dollars of equipment it sold to Greece it sold $10 million to the more populous Turkey.

Greek officials in 2002 expanded it to include the modernization of three older class-209 submarines—work to be done at the Skaramangas shipyard using materials and help from the Germans. The increase would cost another €985 million.

The total cost of the new and renovated subs: €2.84 billion.

As the military expenditures rose, Greece's two main political parties used them as a political football, each trying to make the budget deficit figures look worse when the other was in charge.

By last fall, Greece had paid €2.032 billion, about 70% of the total owed. With the deal at an impasse, the German companies cancelled the contract.

Finally, in March, the two sides announced they had begun negotiating a new deal. Instead of having three older subs modernized, just one would be modernized, and Greece would buy two additional new ones, bringing the total to six new submarines—costing a total of €1.3 billion.

With 1,200 shipyard jobs at stake, Germany demanding concessions on the complex deal, and Greece having already paid two billion euros without receiving a single sub, the new arrangement was necessary, he said.

But in February, just as a solution appeared to be at hand, German prosecutors in Munich began turning up evidence of unsavory dealings, according to records of their investigation.

Ferrostaal executives authorized payments worth millions of euros to politicians to win the initial deal in 2000, through a Greek company called Marine Industrial Enterprises, according to the Munich prosecutor's records.

Despite the tortuous, decade-long journey of the submarine deal—and Greece's precarious financial standing—Germany stands ready for more business.

Guido Westerwelle, the German foreign minister, in February told a Greek newspaper that Germany doesn't want to force Greece to buy anything.

But "whenever it comes to the point when it's ready to buy fighter planes," a European fighter-plane consortium, which Germany represents in Greece, "wants to be considered in the decision."

A spokesman for Mr. Westerwelle says the minister didn't discuss fighter sales with the Greek government during the visit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...108208712.html

[julie]

SoM ,Greece and Serbia will forever be plastic friends for their territorial aspirations on what is left of Macedonia. Svinye.

Onur, so true, structured religion has interesting manipulating ways.

[makedonche]

Quote:
"Yes, benefit for Bulgars and Greeks but exact opposite for the EU(mainly France and Germany) and USA. If Turkey enters the EU then how come the French and Germans gonna sell billions dollars worth of weapons and equipment to Bulgars and Greeks?

Think wisely my friend They need Turkish bugaboo to sell their weapons to all of us."

Onur
Very true, the US,Germans & French are like drug dealers, they create a product then create a demand for their product - based on fear- and have ready made idiot customers, like the Greeks, lining up to buy their products in case the evil "Turks" invade them! The greeks seem to be the only ones who can't see this, or is it their politicians who are ignoring the obvious in return for kickbacks from the arms suppliers? Or in Macedonia's case the evil communists! Whatever the reason the Greeks just keep buying - hopefully the population will wake up to the stupidity of their politicians one day, although that's highly unlikely - given that their own navy admiral resigned due to arms purchases and reductions in wages to pay for them! Which raises another interesting point- who's going to operate all these new equipments if they can't afford the wages?

[Rogi]

That reminds me, Have you all seen the movie 'Lord of War'? If not, you ought to.

[Prolet]

Rogi, The one where Nicolas Cage is a weapons dealer?

I saw it in Stari Kraj, what abot it?

[fyrOM]

Chaos derivatives market in Greece

http://www.vest.com.mk/?ItemID=32DF50C8F034DE4DB472CEDBB7A20337

07/27/2010
Chaos still reigns on the market of fuels in Greece , after the owners of the tanks they have resolved to continue their protests against the submitted draft law to liberalize the market.

Media in Greece warn that expected in coming days to clamp problems in supplying the market with fuel because of the strike today and enter the owners of gas stations to protest against the removal of safe distances for the construction of gas stations.

Because of problems with the owners of tanks and gasoline pumps Sunday felt a serious lack of fuel and gas stations have huge queues of cars.

Due to a strike by drivers of tankers and trucks yesterday to many stations in northern Greece are on the message boards with no benzinn .

Newspapers wrote that gasoline is running out.

In Thessaloniki, the owners of tanks blocking places charging for petrol cars . Besides fuel , the market shows a lack of food , which is expected to grow because it is disturbed the normal filling of shops for protests by owners of trucks.

Traders call for common sense and ask the government and striking through dialogue to seek resolution of the emerging problems.

[fyrOM]

It started of with PIgS. Then Bulgaria wanted to join them so it became BPIgS .
Not to be outdone Hungary wanted to join so we then have BHugePIgS.
Now Albania wants to join so AhhBHugePIgS.

If more countries want to join its going to get harder to keep this going.

Do the Albanians in Macedonia really want to join up with Albania.

Every Albanian citizen “inherits” debt of $2.300 from government

http://www.idividi.com.mk/English/World/618844/index.html

Tirana, 7 August 2010 (MIA) - The opposition Socialist party of Albania alarmed on growth of public debt, which reached remarkable figures.

- The current level of public debt reaches US$ 7.3 billion, which is unimaginable figure for our country. Every one of us, every Albanian citizen today has debt of US$ 2.300. Even every child born this year inherits the debt of Berisha's government amounting to US$ 2.300, MP Ilir Bekqa presented party's position.

He said that there are three reasons that cause the growth of public debt: incompetence, irresponsibility and corruption of the government, MIA reports from Tirana.

Socialists foresee that public debt in 2010 will increase for additional US$ 480 million, which "brings Albanian economy on unsafe and risky road." sk/fd/11:38

###

IMF to open monitoring office in Athens: official

Athens, 6 August 2010 (MIA) - The International Monetary Fund will soon open a fact-finding office in Athens, where it is already overseeing a crash three-year Greek austerity programme, a senior IMF official said on Friday.

"An office will operate in Athens in a month to six weeks at the most," the IMF's deputy European director Poul Thomsen told To Vima daily.

"Its role will be to collect data, analyse it and discuss it with the Greek government," said Thomsen, who also heads the IMF's joint team with the European Union and the European Central Bank auditing Greece's application of reforms undertaken in return for a massive default-saving loan.

The joint EU-IMF mission this week completed a two-week audit of Greek finances to determine whether a nine-billion-euro (11.9-billion-dollar) slice of the loan will be released as scheduled next month.

A total sum of EUR110 billion over three years was earmarked this year to rescue Greece from bankruptcy.

The inspectors said on Thursday that Greece had made "considerable" and "impressive" progress on slashing state spending en route to eliminating a public deficit that last year stood at over four times the allowed EU limit.

But they noted that "key challenges" remained ahead of a next release of funds in December, by which time Greece must begin the deregulation of the energy sector which is currently dominated by state operator PPC.

Greek officials must also present proposals on overhauling the ailing state railway group OSE which the mission said is buried under debts of EUR10 billion, AFP reports.

The reforms have sparked six general strikes and protests this year which are set to pick up again after the summer lull. Unionists at both the PPC and OSE have pledged to fight against the government's cost-cutting plans.

On Friday, Thomsen advised Greek authorities to "pick their battles" with unions by focusing on sectors promising immediate relief to the recession-hit economy, such as the important tourism industry.

"Undoubtedly there will be vested interests that will react, you need to think smart," he said.

In another interview with Le Monde, Thomsen ruled out the prospect of Greece restructuring its mountain of debt, estimated at about EUR300 billion, or 133.2 percent of output this year.

"This is not an option for the Greek government, and markets are also in the process of comprehending that this is not the issue. Greece's problem is not so much the weight of its debt, but its lack of competitiveness. Its main challenge is to achieve growth, create jobs and become competitive within the eurozone," the Dane said.

"When Greece completes its structural reforms we will see the weight of this debt lessen considerably," he said.

[Sv. Nikola]

Final "No" to EU, Greece - in Slovakia Parlament

Slovakia with a Final "No" to EU, Greece
Wednesday, 11 August 2010

Slovakian Parliament voted today against financial involvment of their nation in a "EU Fund for Greece", thus cementing the stance of the newly elected Government in Bratislava they would not help countries who mismanage their finances.

69 people voted against, while only 2 voted for helping Greece.

Slovakia's Finance Minister applauded the vote, saying "Foreign Banks as well as local Banks hid Greece's debt and economical problems. It was normal for these banks to cover and help Greece get out of debt. Instead they didn't offer a single euro and expected foreign nations to pay up and cover them?"

[Mikail]

Thank you Slovakia for standing your ground.

Greece needs to be exposed for what it has done and those trying to hide the truth need to be exposed.

[George S.]

well the eu countries aren't stupid to just give money away to a country like greece who just wastes & squandes it.Greece has been a very unfaithfull member the sooner the eu realises that the greeks will hold the eu down.

[Bill77]

well the eu countries aren't stupid to just give money away to a country like greece who just wastes & squandes it.Greece has been a very unfaithfull member the sooner the eu realises that the greeks will hold the eu down.

OH yes they are.......Well except Slovakia. Hopefully others wisen up.

Well done to the Slovaks

[fyrOM]

Bravo Slovakia. Finally someone with some common sense.

The banks and Greece have been complicit in their infidelity.
They do not deserve support for lying cheating retiring at 50 and having an endless party at other peoples expense.
There is no reason to have any sympathy for them. They did not have some natural disaster that they could not help.

Every country in the eu should have had such a vote and say NO to a lying thief of a partner.

It is nothing less than theft and Slovakia has shown they are not stupid to let themselves be robbed.

[MKPrilep]

I must say I like this country more and more.
Also they do not recognize Kosovo.
I can imagine how much pressure they now exert on them.