Financial Crisis in Greece

[Risto the Great]

Help Greece in exchange for an Island .... sounds fair.
Macedonia gives the USA a spy view of Europe and gets nothing in return.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Quite pathetic, but as stated many times, the West won't allow their little fantasy branchild to fall through, not yet anyway. Perhaps Greece should seek being a small protectorate of the UK and Germany, afterall, it was they who created this state of 'Hellenes' while the soon-to-be 'Hellenes' were still speaking Albanian and (with complete indifference) helping foreigners load up their boats with Athenian marbles. Besides, name changes are so common in that state that the current leader of Greece should have no problems being called George Pope Andrews, should he?

[Bill77]

ECB Founder against Bailout for Greece


One of the principal architects of the euro has strongly warned against bailing Greece out of its financial difficulties. Greece's ballooning debts have hit the euro and European financial markets.

Yet Otmar Issing, a founding member of the European Central Bank, says bailing out Greece would endanger much-needed economic changes.

"Any sign that help might come, would undermine the efforts which are needed to reform the Greek economy," he said.

Ballooning debt

Reports have suggested that the EU might bail Greece out, which would calm the financial markets.

However, Otmar Issing, who was one of the founding members of the Executive Board of the European Central Bank, told UK media that this would undermine the Greek government's planned drastic budget cuts.

"These reforms which are needed will be blood and tears, to use this phrase, but without that, Greece will never overcome the difficulties.

"It is after years of violating rules, constantly cheating on economic figures, financing consumption, public and private by huge debts - this is a way which has to be stopped.

"Greece has to turn in the other direction, there is no alternative to that," said Dr Issing. Will Greece be pushed to come up with a real economy for a change, or will they continue to depend on EU funds, remains to be seen.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/12220/46/

Thats right Dr Issing. Let these crooked bastards learn from there mistakes. spoiling them with hand outs all the time,will not teach them a thing. As much as it hurts them to do it the hard way, it hurts us..........Not. But it will be a good leson for Greece to do it the hard way and it will be a good example for other countries that think they can play up because mumy and dady are there to bail us out when ever we need

[makedonche]

"Thats right Dr Issing. Let these crooked bastards learn from there mistakes. spoiling them with hand outs all the time,will not teach them a thing. As much as it hurts them to do it the hard way, it hurts us..........Not. But it will be a good leson for Greece to do it the hard way and it will be a good example for other countries that think they can play up because mumy and dady are there to bail us out when ever we need"
Bill
Well said! It may also serve as a wake up call for us - being to reliant on NATO/EU to save us and all we need to do in return is bow to their demands!

[Anarchist]

"Thats right Dr Issing. Let these crooked bastards learn from there mistakes. spoiling them with hand outs all the time,will not teach them a thing. As much as it hurts them to do it the hard way, it hurts us..........Not. But it will be a good leson for Greece to do it the hard way and it will be a good example for other countries that think they can play up because mumy and dady are there to bail us out when ever we need"
Bill
Well said! It may also serve as a wake up call for us - being to reliant on NATO/EU to save us and all we need to do in return is bow to their demands!

Just to quote and this is is true that the Macedonian economy also relies on the Greek economy , the figure last time was 60%. If i find this source again ill have to post it up as proof.

This all caused because uniting the whole of europe under one currency obviously has taken the toll with different needs in different countries , i wish things were back to the old way with dracmas.

No need to take things personal because afew fanatical Greeks decide to act like idiots , because you have to also look that it works both ways and there are Macedonian fanatics who are preaching and don't know what they're talking about.

[Bill77]

Just to quote and this is is true that the Macedonian economy also relies on the Greek economy , the figure last time was 60%. If i find this source again ill have to post it up as proof.

This all caused because uniting the whole of europe under one currency obviously has taken the toll with different needs in different countries , i wish things were back to the old way with dracmas.

No need to take things personal because afew fanatical Greeks decide to act like idiots , because you have to also look that it works both ways and there are Macedonian fanatics who are preaching and don't know what they're talking about.

welcome Anarchist. I know that you hate politics. But this thread is realy about the Europe plans to bail out Greece financialy. What are your views on this issue. In particulor Dr issings thoughts

[Anarchist]

welcome Anarchist. I know that you hate politics. But this thread is realy about the Europe plans to bail out Greece financialy. What are your views on this issue. In particulor Dr issings thoughts

I'd have to say there has been alot of corruption in europe and it doesn't shock me that Greece has been bouncing figures around , im sure other countries as well who could get around it would have done the same. Hence why the EURO was introduced into europe to make everyone the same so there was no more cutting corners.

I do agree on Dr issings views because to be able to move forward from a problem , you have to work your way from the problem to a solution. But then again i guess its like taking out a mortgage out of a bank , and people who need to refinance to keep going. I guess you could look at it from that perspective , instead of it being a house its a whole country instead.

Also i do believe bailing out Greece would do alot of good because if this starts i guess the rest of the balkans will go into a chain reaction.

Thats my opinion.

[Bill77]

I'd have to say there has been alot of corruption in europe and it doesn't shock me that Greece has been bouncing figures around , im sure other countries as well who could get around it would have done the same. Hence why the EURO was introduced into europe to make everyone the same so there was no more cutting corners.

I do agree on Dr issings views because to be able to move forward from a problem , you have to work your way from the problem to a solution. But then again i guess its like taking out a mortgage out of a bank , and people who need to refinance to keep going. I guess you could look at it from that perspective , instead of it being a house its a whole country instead.

Also i do believe bailing out Greece would do alot of good because if this starts i guess the rest of the balkans will go into a chain reaction.

Thats my opinion.

Thanks for your opinion. But please elaborate on how would the Rest of the Balkans be Affected? Its evident that Greece is and has been Financialy very sick for a while now, yet there is no signs of Affect over the border or behond.

[Anarchist]

Thanks for your opinion. But please elaborate on how would the Rest of the Balkans be Affected? Its evident that Greece is and has been Financialy very sick for a while now, yet there is no signs of Affect over the border or behond.

My main concern would be the trade sector ,imports/exports which Greece does alot of , i wouldn't doubt that it would happen straight away but i would be certain it would effect other surrounding countries over time.

Greece has had its finiancial issue since the ex prime minister of Greece Mr Karamalis who was ( ND - Neo Dimokratia ) which pretty much is the capitalist party , drove things to the ground. Now that Mr Papandreou who is a PASOK - Socialist party , i guess he is left with the problem.

[Prolet]

Anarchist, You are from Solun how do you get along with the Greeks from the South??

Its true that Greece is a trade partner, however to owe that much money is just amazing. Greece owes 3 times more then Germany does, thats just too much.

[Bill77]

But then again i guess its like taking out a mortgage out of a bank , and people who need to refinance to keep going. I guess you could look at it from that perspective , instead of it being a house its a whole country instead.

LOL, only one problem, Greece would have to pay this morgage back on top of the shit they are already in. I don't think so.

Just read the latest problems EU and Greece are facing.

Should Germany bail out Club Med or leave the euro altogether?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/7119986/Should-Germany-bail-out-Club-Med-or-leave-the-euro-altogether.html

Greece defies Europe as EMU crisis turns deadly serious

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6804156/Greece-defies-Europe-as-EMU-crisis-turns-deadly-serious.html

Greece tests the limit of sovereign debt as it grinds towards slump

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6630117/Greece-tests-the-limit-of-sovereign-debt-as-it-grinds-towards-slump.html

[Risto the Great]

Greece to face European Commission economic scrutiny

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8495174.stm

Greece will face the most stringent monitoring of any European Union country as it attempts to balance its finances over the next few years.

The news came as the European Commission confirmed its support of Greece's plans to reduce its deficit.

EU economic commissioner Joaquín Almunia also launched an infringement procedure to ensure Greek authorities report reliable budgetary statistics.

Greece's deficit is more than four times higher than eurozone rules allow.

Progress reviews

Mr Almunia welcomed the additional fiscal measures taken by Greece.

He said: "We consider that the programme is ambitious, and that the programme in terms of targets is achievable.

"We are endorsing the Greek programme. But at the same time we know that the implementation of the programme is not easy. It is difficult. This deserves support."

However, Mr Almunia acknowledged that tackling the debt was difficult politically and complex technically.

He said that EU officials would monitor carefully the efforts of the Greek programme and would demand extra action if it was not on track to meet the deficit goals.

EU economic ministers will next meet on 16 February. Provided they accept the commission's recommendations, new deadlines will be set for Greece to review progress with officials.

It will have to submit a first report on 16 March, with a second deadline on 16 May.

Nigel Cassidy, the BBC's Europe business reporter, said the reliability of Greece's budgetary statistics was a long-standing issue.

"This was the problem before. Everybody here in Brussels knew Greece was not being very honest with its economic figures but nobody did anything about it," he said.

Fear of contagion

Greece is struggling with its worst economic crisis since joining the euro in 2001.

It has one of the smaller economies in the European Union, but it is being watched closely because of the doubts financial markets have in it.

Its long-term deficit cutting plan aims to reduce the budget shortfall, currently 12.7%, to less than 3% by 2012, but many people in Brussels and beyond remain sceptical.

There are other bigger economies in the eurozone that face the same deficit problems and the fear of contagion is high.

Prime Minister George Papandreou has urged the public to support his programme of tough austerity measures, which includes increases on fuel duty and a public sector pay freeze.

However, public sector workers are planning a strike next week.

'No way out'

Mario Levis, Professor of Finance at Cass Business School, said it was going to be very challenging for the government to achieve its targets.

"To bring the deficit down in the next three years is extremely difficult. Increasing taxes is not enough. They have to increase productivity," he said.

And he added that more may need to be done to get the public on board.

"I think Greeks will appreciate, if it's fully explained to them, the severity of the situation. There's no way out.

"But the prime minister has said there's widespread tax evasion in the public sector... [and] there are not enough measures being announced yet to cut down on tax evasion."

If everyone in Brussels knew, then they deserve every bit of financial misery that it brings them.

[Bill77]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8495174.stm


If everyone in Brussels knew, then they deserve every bit of financial misery that it brings them.

My word they deserve it. in a way, they are an Accessory to this dilema.

I would love to find out what these plans that the EC suports are?

One sugestion reported was for Greece to impose the draconian pay cuts, just like what is under way in Ireland (5pc for lower state workers, rising to 20pc for bosses), but what is sugested also, is that it would deepen depression and cause tax revenues to collapse further. It is already too late for such crude policies. Greece is past the tipping point of a compound debt spiral.

would these anarchists or rioters who burn shops and cars at a drop of a hat suport pay cuts?

[Buktop]

My word they deserve it. in a way, they are an Accessory to this dilema.

I would love to find out what these plans that the EC suports are?

One sugestion reported was for Greece to impose the draconian pay cuts, just like what is under way in Ireland (5pc for lower state workers, rising to 20pc for bosses), but what is sugested also, is that it would deepen depression and cause tax revenues to collapse further. It is already too late for such crude policies. Greece is past the tipping point of a compound debt spiral.

would these anarchists or rioters who burn shops and cars at a drop of a hat suport pay cuts?

The only thing Greece can do is cut government spending. Since Greece uses the Euro, they cannot touch interest rates, and the ECB will not jeopardize the entire euro-zone just for Greece. They have been using government money to fund business' and to try and maintain higher levels of production while greatly increasing their debt levels.

Greece has never met the Maastricht Criteria to be able to qualify to join the EMU and they never should have been allowed to adopt the Euro. Now if they decide to re-institute the Drachma, their cost of borrowing will skyrocket and they will collapse beneath their own debt.

The problem with the cuts in government spending is that the subsidized industries, lets take for example agriculture, will be severely hindered by the cuts, this will lead to civil unrest blah blah blah, and then Nea Democratia will take the next elections, even though they caused the problems in the first place.

Lose lose situation if I must say so.

[Risto the Great]

Agriculture is dominated by the Macedonian region.
The civil unrest will be interesting as the Greek myths begin to disintegrate.