Financial Crisis in Greece

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  • Rogi
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2343

    Greece must reform politically as well as economically

    Greece must reform politically as well as economically
    By Marko Attila Hoare,
    28th February 2010




    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

    1. The outpouring of anti-German vitriol in Greece, in response to Germany's reluctance to bail the latter out of its debt crisis, indicates that Greece's malaise extends far beyond the economic sphere.

    2. The profligacy and corruption of the Greek state, that threaten to undermine the entire Eurozone, are the flip-side of an aggressive nationalism that violates the rights of Greece's national minorities and destabilises South East Europe.

    3. Political as well as economic conditions should be placed on Greece as the price for an EU financial bail-out; at the very least, these should include full compliance with the rulings of the European Court of Human Rights with regard to minority rights and the lifting of the Greek veto on Macedonia's EU and NATO membership.


    It was only a matter of time. Once it became clear that the EU was not bending over backwards to bail Greece out of the debt crisis created by the latter’s own profligacy and corruption, it was inevitable that loud voices would be raised in Greece presenting the country as the victim of dastardly plotting foreign imperialists. Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou led the charge, loudly turning reality on its head to complain that it was actually the EU that was failing Greece and was responsible for Greece’s crisis, rather than the other way around: ‘Greece is not a political or an economic superpower to fight this alone. The EU gave political support in the last few months of this crisis, but in the battle against impressions and the psychology of the market it was at the very least timid.’ Indeed, according to Papandreou, the EU’s errors went beyond ‘timidity’ in response to the Greek crisis, to actually being guilty of creating the crisis in the first place: ‘There was speculation about our country which created a psychology of imminent collapse, prophesies which risked becoming self-fulfilling’. Indeed, ‘There was a lack of co-ordination between various bodies of the union, the commission, the member states, the European Central Bank, even different opinions within those bodies.’

    Deputy prime minister Theodoros Pangalos has responded to Germany’s unwillingness to bail Greece out by bringing up the Nazi occupation of Greece in World War II: ‘They [the Nazis] took away the Greek gold that was in the Bank of Greece, they took away the Greek money and they never gave it back.’ Consequently, ‘I don’t say they have to give back the money necessarily, but they have to say thanks. And they [the German government] shouldn’t complain much about stealing and not being very specific about economic dealings.’ It may seem inappropriate for the deputy head of a democratically elected government of an EU and NATO member-state to bring up the Nazis just because Germany does not want to pay for someone else’s mess, but Pangalos’s views are entirely representative of the wave of anti-German bile currently washing over Greece. Margaritis Tzimas of the opposition New Democracy party asks rhetorically ‘How does Germany have the cheek to denounce us over our finances when it has still not paid compensation for Greece’s war victims?’ Deputies of the Left Coalition party last week not only demanded that the government press Berlin over the issue of reparations, but blamed Germany for Greece’s financial crisis: ‘By their statements, German politicians and German financial institutions play a leading role in a wretched game of profiteering at the expense of the Greek people.’

    One step further down in tastelessness is the joke apparently doing the rounds in Athens, concerning the government’s attempt to make citizens collect receipts to flush tradesmen out of the black market: ‘For every VAT receipt not collected, the Germans will shoot 10 patriots.’ This Greek sense of victimhood is attaining comical levels. As Reuters reports, ‘Greeks recall that Greek “Gastarbeiter” (guest workers) were among migrants who contributed to Germany’s economic miracle in the 1960s and 1970s while their homeland was ruled by a military dictatorship backed by NATO, of which West Germany was a member.’ In other words, Germany should feel both grateful to Greece for sending it immigrants and guilty because Greece was ruled by a dictatorship.

    Of course, the reality of who has helped whom economically is somewhat different. Germany is by far the largest contributor to EU funds, while Greece is the largest net recipient of EU funds after Poland and alongside Romania, and the largest per capita recipient after Luxembourg and Belgium, according to Open Europe’s figures. Germany claims that it has contributed 33 billion deutschemarks in aid to Greece since 1960, both bilaterally and in the context of the EU, on top of 115 million deutsche marks for war reparations. Given the gratitude the Germans are now receiving for these vast sums, it is unsurprising they are somewhat reluctant to cough up still more.

    Yet in one sense, the Greeks are right, and the EU must bear some of the responsibility for the Greek financial mess. It is, after all, the EU which has been subsidising Greek profligacy for the past three decades, although Greece’s public sector corruption, high levels of tax evasion, overblown bureaucracy and low retirement age have been no secret. The EU is like the mother who spoils her child rotten, then must suffer its ingratitude and tantrums when it doesn’t have every one of its demands met. Ultimately, the mother does bear responsibility if her child is a spoilt brat who doesn’t respect her. Greece’s current anti-German tantrum is not an isolated quirk; the country is a veritable hotbed of anti-Western nationalism, even descending into terrorism, as the brilliant Greek journalist Takis Michas has described. The paradox of why a country that has received so much from the West – from huge EU subsidies, through military protection against the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War to diplomatic support over Cyprus and Macedonia – should be so awash with anti-Western sentiment may not be such a paradox after all: it is a case of biting the hand that feeds.

    While Greece’s EU-encouraged financial irresponsibility is now being widely remarked upon, it is less frequently noted that Greek irresponsibility, and EU encouragement of this irresponsibility, extend beyond the economic sphere. Greece has been found by the European Court of Human Rights to be in breach of the human rights of both its ethnic Macedonian and its Turkish minorities, but it continues to defy the Court’s rulings without incurring any penalties from the EU. Greece was the most enthusiastic ally of the Serbian regime of Slobodan Milosevic in the 1990s; it helped to undermine the UN’s 2004 Annan Plan to reunify Cyprus; it is one of only five EU members that has broken ranks over the issue of Kosova’s international recognition (and the only one that cannot justify this through reference to its own fears of separatism); and, most dangerously of all, it is vetoing the neighbouring Republic of Macedonia’s attempts to join both NATO and the EU, on account of its nationalistic hostility to Macedonia’s use of its own name.

    On the other hand, according to October 2009 figures, Greece is currently contributing only 15 troops to NATO’s mission in Afghanistan, as against 165 from Macedonia – a non-member with one fifth of Greece’s population; 175 from Georgia; 255 from Albania; 295 from Croatia; 540 from Bulgaria; 945 from Romania; and 1,755 from Turkey. It would appear that those Balkan countries that were on the wrong side in the Cold War are somewhat readier to contribute to the Western alliance’s military efforts today than the only Balkan Christian country which enjoyed NATO protection during the Cold War, although Turkey appears readier to contribute too, despite being predominantly Muslim.

    We can sum up the terms of the relationship between Greece and the rest of NATO and the EU as follows. We defend Greece’s security; we fund Greece’s prosperity with massive subsidies; and we give Greece unwarranted diplomatic support vis-a-vis Macedonia and Cyprus. Greece pursues policies that destabilise the EU economically and South East Europe politically, while making the minimum possible contribution to the security of the democratic world. And the Greek political and intellectual classes complain endlessly about the evils of Germany, the US and Western imperialism in general.

    This must stop. The reforms demanded of Greece by the EU as the price of a bail-out cannot be limited to the economic sphere, but must extend to the political as well. As an absolute minimum, Greece must recognise the rights of its national minorities, including the right to freedom of association, conscience and self-definition, and must immediately announce it will comply with all rulings of the European Court of Human Rights as regards these rights. And it must lift its veto of Macedonia’s membership of both NATO and the EU, announcing that its dispute with Macedonia will not be resolved through blackmail or at the price of South East Europe’s Euro-Atlantic integration.

    The EU is moving to strip Greece of control over its own taxation and spending policies if it does not comply with austerity demands. Some German officials are reportedly demanding that Greece also be denied a vote in all EU matters while it remains in ‘receivership’. This would be eminently sensible. Greece’s economic and political irresponsibility are two sides of the saim coin, and there is no point in the EU demanding that the country behave responsibly in the economic sphere while giving it a blank cheque to pursue nationalistic policies that destabilise South East Europe. The nationalism that leads the Greek political classes to abuse their membership of the Euro-Atlantic club to try to force Macedonia to change its name is the same nationalism that leads them to milk the EU for all it is worth, then engage in crude xenophobic and anti-imperialist tantrums when the bottle is taken away. Greece can be selfishly nationalistic or it can be a responsible member of the European family. It is up to the EU to make clear that it expects the latter.

    Marko Attila Hoare is European Neighbourhood Section Director for the Henry Jackson Society


    Comment

    • Prolet
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 5241

      Lets see Risto

      Greece last year of bribery made 787 million
      02.03.2010 - 21:03 | 02/03/2010 - 21:03 |

      * Балкан Balkans

      Грчките домаќинства минатата година за подмитување дале 787 милиони евра, тврди Меѓународната организација за борба против корупцијата со седиште во Берлин „Транспаренси Интернешенел“. Greek households last year for bribery gave 787 million, says the International Organization for Combating Corruption in the Berlin-based Transparency International.

      Според наводите од се уште необјавената студија на органзиацијата, што ја пренесува весникот „Велт“, секој граѓанин на Грција минатата година за подмитување на јавните службеници во просек давал по 1.355 евра. According to the allegations still neobjavenata study organziacijata, which carries the newspaper Welt, "every citizen of Greece last year for bribery of public officials gave an average of 1355 euros Mon.
      Овие пари оделе за побрзо издавање возачки или градежни дозволи, за обезбедување побрз прием во болниците или во даночните канцеларии да се направат поволни даночни пријави. The money went quickly to issue driver's licenses or construction, to ensure faster adoption in hospitals or in the tax offices to make favorable tax returns.
      Секој Грк, во просек, минатата година дал уште 1.671 евро за подмитување во приватниот сектор- лекари, адвокати или банкари. Each Grecian, on average, last year gave more Euro 1671 for bribery in the private sector, doctors, lawyers or bankers.
      Според „Транспаренси“, граѓаните на Грција годишно државните службеници ги корумпираат со 462 милиони и приватниот сектор со 325 милиони евра. According to Transparency, "the citizens of Greece annually corrupt civil servants with 462 million and the private sector with 325 million euros. Ова значи дека од 2007 година сумата за подмитување е зголемена за 23 отсто, бидејќи тогаш биле пресметани 693 милиони евра дадени за мито. This means that by 2007 the amount of bribery has increased 23 percent since then been calculated 693 million provided for bribes.
      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

      Comment

      • gore na nitche
        Junior Member
        • Jan 2010
        • 32

        Nice one..

        About time

        Comment

        • makedonche
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 3242

          Rogi
          Good find, enjoyed every line of it! lol lol
          On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

          Comment

          • fyrOM
            Banned
            • Feb 2010
            • 2180

            Many clubs and organisations that have paid membership also have the suspension of voting privileges. The eu should apply this to Greece until they are financially viable. Hopefully this would be never.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              'Bankrupt' Greeks told to sell their islands



              Two political allies of German Chancellor Angela Merkel say Greece should sell off some of its islands to pay off its debts.

              Greece's prime minister, George Papandreou, is due to meet Ms Merkel in Berlin today for talks about his country's economic crisis.

              The country has announced strict austerity measures to avoid bankruptcy.

              Should that fail, Germany is the obvious rescuer, but many Germans do not believe Greece deserves a lifeline.

              Two senior German politicians have gone even further, suggesting Greece should sell off some of its uninhabited islands.

              A local newspaper headline reads: "Sell your islands you bankrupt Greeks, and the Acropolis too!"

              A real estate website quotes an island price tag of $2 million, "relatively affordable," it reads - unless you are Greek.

              Meanwhile police in Athens have clashed with demonstrators protesting against the Greek government's new plan to tackle its budget crisis.

              Officers fired teargas at about 50 people who were upset over the government's plans to freeze the pension and increase several taxes.
              My goodness, can we all have a minute silence in relation to Greece's self-inflicted poverty. Can we then chuckle for the next half hour about it.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • The LION will ROAR
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 3231

                My GOD... we go thru TAX increases every year in Australia..Yet these spoilt Greeks are jumping up and down because they have to pay abit more tax..Don't they want to sacrifice a little to help their own country that is going thru hardship…Geezzz

                How about Greece sell Macedonia back to their rightful owners..and when exchanging the deeds you kiss our arses and say sorry..
                The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  Germany to Greece: Want Cash? Sell your Islands

                  Thursday, 04 March 2010

                  Greece should sell some of its uninhabited islands to raise cash to avoid bankruptcy, two German parliamentarians from Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right coalition suggested on Thursday.

                  "The Greek state must sell stakes in companies and also assets such as, for example, unpopulated islands," Frank Schäffler, a member of parliament for the pro-business Free Democrats, told the Bild daily.

                  Marco Wanderwitz, an MP for Merkel's own conservative Christian Democrats, said Athens should provide collateral for any money it receives from the European Union to help it out of its debt crisis.

                  "In this case, certain Greek islands also come into question," added Wanderwitz.

                  "We give you cash, you give us Corfu," the Bild commented.

                  Greece has around 6,000 islands off its coast, of which only 227 are inhabited, according to the country's National Tourism Office website.

                  The cash-strapped country Wednesday launched a fresh round of draconian austerity measures in a bid to rein in a ballooning budget deficit that is more than four times above EU limits.

                  The Socialist government increased sales, tobacco and alcohol taxes and cut public sector holiday allowances to save €4.8 billion ($6.5 billion), equal to about two percent of gross domestic product (GDP). Pensions in the public and private sector were also frozen.

                  Merkel is set to hold talks with Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou on Friday to discuss the situation in Greece.

                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • osiris
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1969

                    unfortunately the world still cannot see or refuses to see what modern greece is all about. the lied to get into the eu they lie about their fake hellenism they lie about their minorities and yet they are still afforded some understanding and sympathy.

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      The German Minister for Economy is saying that they wont be giving Greece a cent.

                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • Philosopher
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1003

                        Greece should sell their islands

                        Greece should sell islands to keep bankruptcy at bay, say German MPs
                        • Fire sale of Greek islands, Acropolis and Parthenon suggested
                        • Greek public reacts with outrage and boycotts German goods
                        Phillip Inman and Helena Smith
                        guardian.co.uk, Thursday 4 March 2010 13.57 GMT
                        larger | smaller

                        Josef Schlarmann told Bild newspaper that Greece should consider selling its uninhabited islands for debt redemption. Photograph: Third Eye Images/Corbis

                        Greece must consider a fire sale of land, historic buildings and art works to cut its debts, two rightwing German politicians said today in a newspaper interview that is bound to exacerbate tensions between Athens and Berlin.

                        Alongside austerity measures such as cuts to public sector pay and a freeze on state pensions, why not sell a few uninhabited islands or ancient artefacts, asked Josef Schlarmann, a senior member of Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats, and Frank Schaeffler, a finance policy expert in the Free Democrats.

                        The Acropolis and the Parthenon could also fall under the hammer, along with temptingly idyllic Aegean islands still under state ownership, in a rush to keep bankruptcy at bay.

                        "Those in insolvency have to sell everything they have to pay their creditors," Schlarmann told Bild newspaper. "Greece owns buildings, companies and uninhabited islands, which could all be used for debt redemption."

                        Only yesterday the ruling socialist government in Greece published its third attempt to reduce the country's debts and please EU governments, which have pledged to support the beleaguered economy if austerity measures are enacted.

                        Strikes and street protests have already threatened to bring many industries and public services to a standstill if the cuts go ahead.

                        But Germans remain unmoved by the troubles facing Greece. Opinion polls show Germans are overwhelmingly against a Berlin-funded bailout. Greece's deficit was 12.7% of national income in 2009, well ahead of the EU's 3% limit.

                        Merkel will meet the Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, in Berlin on Friday.

                        "The chancellor cannot promise Greece any help," Schaeffler told Bild in a story under the headline: "Sell your islands, you bankrupt Greeks! And sell the Acropolis too!"

                        "The Greek government has to take radical steps to sell its property – for example its uninhabited islands," Schaeffler told Germany's best-selling daily newspaper.

                        Greece's deputy foreign minister, Dimitris Droutsas, was asked about the idea in an interview with ARD TV. "I've also heard the suggestion we should sell the Acropolis," Droutsas said. "Suggestions like this are not appropriate at this time."

                        Germans have had an allergic reaction to reports their country may be part of a bailout for Greece. Many fear it could lead to similar calls for cash from Spain and Portugal, which have also been badly hit following the financial crash.

                        Europe's biggest economy itself is only just creeping out of its worst postwar recession. Last week figures revealed the German economy had stalled, while separately, politicians wrestled with a bigger bailout for its second-largest bank, Commerzbank, which purchased billions of pounds worth of exotic financial instruments linked to US sub-prime mortgages.

                        Greeks reacted with outrage to the proposals today, with many taking to the airwaves to complain about all things Teutonic.

                        "I don't mind so much about the austerity measures, it's the Germans," a former government employee told a radio host. "The suggestion that we now sell off our national assets has got me so angry I am boycotting all their products."

                        The country's consumer federation, INKA, summoned Greeks to boycott German products, including supermarket chains and car dealerships, following a spasm of national fury at the way the country was being portrayed by the German media.

                        "The pressure the Germans are putting us under is outrageous," said Sarandi Pitsas, a pensioner who took to the streets to protest against the austerity measures. "When we were carving beautiful statues like the Venus de Milos," he said, referring to the cover of a German magazine which showed the statue gesturing obscenely under the headline 'Greek cheats', "they were living in caves and growling like dogs."

                        Five days after it was launched, the 100,000-strong consumer group says the boycott of products and shops is going splendidly. "The response has been immense," Haralambous Velidarakis, a board member of INKA, said. "This is not against the German people but in protest against sustained attacks from the German government, which will lead to the impoverishment of Greeks."

                        Greece's satirical weekly To Pontiki (the mouse) put it another way today. Its front-page cover asked: "Does Greece belong to the Greeks?"

                        Comment

                        • Philosopher
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1003

                          My favorite part is this:

                          "The pressure the Germans are putting us under is outrageous," said Sarandi Pitsas, a pensioner who took to the streets to protest against the austerity measures. "When we were carving beautiful statues like the Venus de Milos," he said, referring to the cover of a German magazine which showed the statue gesturing obscenely under the headline 'Greek cheats', "they were living in caves and growling like dogs."

                          Why do Greeks always insist of using this sort of expression. Even if this were true, what does this have to do with the current state of events? Are we to assume that because some entity called "Greece" in ancient times achieved certain things, that this entitles them for all time.

                          Greece--grow up!

                          Comment

                          • Prolet
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 5241

                            They only have themselves to blame, thats what happens when you dont have domakini managing the budgets.
                            МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                            Comment

                            • TrueMacedonian
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 3812

                              This made me laugh lol

                              "Sell your islands, you bankrupt Greeks! And sell the Acropolis too!"
                              lololol
                              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                              Comment

                              • Prolet
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 5241

                                TM, And thats good for us??

                                90% of their islands are in Egejska Makedonija, so they will be selling our Islands
                                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                                Comment

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