Secret shrine shared by Muslims and Christians

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  • Bill77
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 4545

    #16
    Speaking of ethnic cleansing, Not evan the dead can rest in peace in Hellas

    Ilias Petropoulos on Macedonian and Greek Issues

    Quote:
    This reminds me of the time I sent a letter to Melina Merkouri, then Greek Minister of Culture, to let her know that a certain group of archeologists were planning to remove Bogomil graves from the territory of Macedonia to prove that Slavs never set foot in this Greek territory. I saw this with my own eyes and even took photographs which I later sent to Athens and Paris.



    More attempts at Ethnic Cleansing

    Here is the article from the newspaper "Sfaira" dated September 1st 1959.

    The article describes how a language oath was taken by the inhabitants of the village of Atrapos(Karpeshina) in the Florina(Lerin) region of Aegean Macedonia.

    The oath:
    Quote:

    I do promise before God, the people, and the official state authorities, that from this day on I shall cease to speak the Slav dialect which gives misunderstandings to the enemies of our country - the Bulgarians - and that I will speak always and everywhere the official language of our fatherland – the Greek language, in which the Holy Gospel is written.
    Last edited by Bill77; 04-15-2010, 06:06 PM.
    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

    Comment

    • Spartan
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 1037

      #17
      Sorry you had to go to the trouble of posting all that (although it is a very interesting read. Thanks for posting it ), as there is no denying the greeks have caused their share of atrocities..... wont get an argument from me there..... I fully agree

      I was merely responding to the 'point'/malakia that -

      There is no dought (apart from one country) the Balkans tolerate and respect other religions and people a free to practice what ever they choose.
      (Where on earth did you come up with that dude!!?? )


      It is clearly bullshit, and a huge lie!!!!
      Last edited by Spartan; 04-15-2010, 06:32 PM.

      Comment

      • Bill77
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 4545

        #18
        Originally posted by Spartan View Post
        Sorry you had to go to the trouble of posting all that (although it is a very interesting read. Thanks for posting it ), as there is no denying the greeks have caused their share of atrocities..... wont get an argument from me there..... I fully agree

        I was merely responding to the 'point'/malakia that -


        (Where on earth did you come up with that dude!!?? )


        It is clearly bullshit, and a huge lie!!!!
        well here is more of what you might call bullshit. And its no trouble at all. So hopefully after this, we can continue with what this thread was designed for. A happy good news story where people, religions, nations can take a leaf out of the book from this municipality.

        If you want to spread anger and hatred towards ither Turks or Religion, please start your own thread and lets leave this to something more pleasant. No Bullshit dude.

        MACEDONIA UNDER GREEK OCUPATION- AEGEAN PART OF MACEDONIA

        The greek ethnic cleansing and genocide of macedonians in Aegean part of Macedonia
        Not including the Greek Church atrocities.


        1912 began a great ETHNIC CLEANSING and genocide of Macedonians...the cruelty displayed by the Greek soldiers in their dealings towards the Macedonian people was merciless 135 000 of the Macedonians expelled 200 vilages from Aegean part of macedonia where COMPLETELY destroed ....


        1913 the greek army burned the Macedonian town of Kukush with 1,846 houses,612 shops,6 factories at same time 4,000 houses where burned to the ground in the Seres vicinity.


        350 000 moslems were EXPELLED from the Agean part of Macedonia 40 000 of these were Macedonians moslems in place of the Macedonians expelled to Bulgaria and Turkey the Greek state resettled 618 000 persons of Greece and NON-Greeee origin and greeks from Tufky in the Agean part of Macedonia
        1913 after separation Greek government activ the policy of the denial of the nationality and the assimilation of the Macedonians
        the name Macedonian and Macedonian language were PROHIBITED and the Macedonians were referred to as BULGARIANS ,Slavophons Greeks or simlle ''endopes''(natives)
        and the same time ALL Macedonians were FORCED to change their names and surnames, the latter to end in: IS -OS-POULOS
        With the deniei of the Macedonian nation went the NON RECOGNITION of the Macedonian language its was proibited,minimized and it was considered a barbarina language
        Macedonian language between parents children among villagers and weddins and funerals WAS STRICTLY FORBIDEN
        the written use of Macedonian also strictly prohibited and macedonian literancy was being eliminated from the churches ,monuments and TOMBSTONES...ALL the churches were given Greek names

        1926 the Greek government on the change TOPONYMS of the Agean part of Macedonia ALL vilages,towns ,rivers and mountanians were RENAMED and given Greek names.The Greek state achieved a policyof state terror
        1936 general Metaxas bannet the use of Macedonian not only in everyday life in the vilages in the market- place in ordinary and natural human COMUNUCATIONS and funerals , but also within the FAMILY CIRCLE.Adult Macedonians were FORCED to attend what were know as evening schools ant to learn ''the greek melodious'' VIOLATION to this rule is DEPORTED to desolate Greek islands
        the Protection of Northen Greece organization PAD and other such MILITARY FORMATON using the teror muder deportation : 3 482 houses were burned down ,80 vilages consisting of 1 605 families were plundered and 1 045 head of large live STOCK and 23 382 head of small investok were confiscated

        In the Kostur region alone 4,500 Macedonian men and women were accused of autonomistic activities, even though most of them were on active service with ELLAS. According to the information available, in the period from 1945 to the end of 1974 9,924 Macedonians were remanded in custody and 4,203 were convicted. 23,811 Macedonian men and women were interned on the basis of decisions of the special Security Commission
        The most -typical examples of forced migration of Macedonians are to be found in eastern Macedonia, where Greek terrorist bands killed 29 and imprisoned 3,100 Macedonians and expelled 600 Macedonian families across the borders - and this in the period from February to the end of March 1945 alone.


        WARNING! SOME OF THE IMAGES ARE EXTREMLY GRAPHIC YOU MIGHT FIND DISTURBING.

        greeks crimes against macedonians











        The situation was no different in the other areas of Aegean Macedonia. In 1948 the majority of the Macedonian population of western and central Aegean Macedonia fled to Yugoslavia and Albania in order to save their lives. More than 60,000 Macedonian men and women were forced to seek, refuge outside the country, fleeing across the border.
        In June 1946 a group of Greek Members of Parliament suggested that the Greek Parliament issue a decree for the forced deportation of all Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia, a suggestion which was justified by their alleged activities, which were said to be a threat to the integrity and sovereignty of Greece and a danger to the peace.
        the Greek monarcho-fascists was the forced resettlement of their villagers and the dumping of them in special camps in urban centres, which had begun as early as 1946. According to the statistics, 213,000 people were forcibly exited from the Aegean part of Macedonia. The terror, mass murder and other forms of repression proved ineffective when it came to breaking the spirit of Macedonians
        Last edited by Bill77; 04-15-2010, 07:00 PM.
        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

        Comment

        • Spartan
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 1037

          #19
          Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
          well here is more of what you might call bullshit.
          Actually you are wrong again .
          I would not call those events you post above 'bullshit'.
          They are a very serious matter.

          This is what i referred to as bullshit -
          There is no dought (apart from one country) the Balkans tolerate and respect other religions and people a free to practice what ever they choose.


          And Im sticking to it

          Do you disagree that the above quote is bullshit??
          Last edited by Spartan; 04-15-2010, 07:18 PM.

          Comment

          • Bill77
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 4545

            #20
            Originally posted by Spartan View Post
            Actually you are wrong again .
            I would not call those events you post above 'bullshit'.
            They are a very serious matter.

            This is what i referred to as bullshit -




            And Im sticking to it

            Do you disagree that the above quote is bullshit??
            Well everything i seem to post lately is Horseshit or Bullshit to you. Well its your opinion and thats fine.

            But can you now respect my wish and alow this thread to continue with what it was designed for??
            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

            Comment

            • Spartan
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 1037

              #21
              Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
              Well everything i seem to post lately is Horseshit or Bullshit to you. Well its your opinion and thats fine.
              Bill I havent responded to you in a while, and I dont think everything you post is bullshit.
              But when I see a statement like this -

              There is no dought (apart from one country) the Balkans tolerate and respect other religions and people a free to practice what ever they choose.

              I just want to put in my '2 cents' as i disagree.
              This is a forum after all.
              Also, I dont see this comment above as a matter of opinion, but one of fact.

              But can you now respect my wish and alow this thread to continue with what it was designed for??
              Yes, of course.
              However, am I allowed to respond to something I disagree with,
              or will you respond by creating 'homosexual spartan' threads?
              Last edited by Spartan; 04-15-2010, 10:12 PM.

              Comment

              • Bill77
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 4545

                #22
                Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                Yes, of course.?
                Thank You


                Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                However, am I allowed to respond to something I disagree with,?
                Sure you can. I can only ask for what i expect from people posting. But i don't have any authority to make things happen.


                Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                or will you respond to me by creating 'homosexual spartan' threads?
                Ahhhh, it was a post and hapened to be the first one. But its not a thread dedicated to 'homosexual spartan' (not that there is anything wrong with being a Homosexual). Once i find something funny about Macedonians, i will post it. I will be fair. Its all in good fun.
                Last edited by Bill77; 04-15-2010, 08:00 PM.
                http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                Comment

                • Onur
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 2389

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                  Which centuries are you talking about if i may ask?
                  I am sure you know the answer of this question. Tell me a single recorded war between Christians and Muslims in Balkans, 15th century to 1821 and in Anatolia to the 1919.



                  Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                  But if we look back in history, for centuries under Ottoman rule, people were free to practice there Orthadox religion. The Balkans would have to have the most number of Church's and Mosques than anywhere in the world. Where as in parts of Africa, asia, middle east, you have mass killings between the two. There is no dought (apart from one country) the Balkans tolerate and respect other religions and people a free to practice what ever they choose.



                  I have to remind you that Jews and Muslim Arabs lived together in Jerusalem and other places at middle-east with no problem whatsoever for like 500 years under Ottoman regime.

                  All problems at middle-east started after British occupation and mass deportation of European Jews to the Jerusalem to create the state of Israel.

                  Comment

                  • Spartan
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1037

                    #24
                    Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                    I am sure you know the answer of this question.
                    I think so

                    Tell me a single recorded war between Christians and Muslims in Balkans, 15th century to 1821 and in Anatolia to the 1919.
                    Morean War 1684-1699
                    The war was fought between 1684-1699, as part of the wider conflict known as the "Great Turkish War", between the Republic of Venice and the Ottoman Empire.

                    Cretan War (1645–1669)
                    was a conflict between the Republic of Venice and her allies (chief among them the Knights of Malta, the Papal States and France) against the Ottoman Empire and the Barbary States, fought over the island of Crete, Venice's largest and richest overseas possession. The war lasted from 1645 to 1669

                    Ottoman–Venetian War (1714–1718)
                    was fought between the Republic of Venice and the Ottoman Empire between 1714 and 1718

                    Ottoman–Venetian War (1499–1503)
                    The Ottoman–Venetian War of 1499–1503 refers to the naval battles between the Ottoman Empire and the Republic of Venice

                    Ottoman–Venetian War (1463–1479)
                    The Second Ottoman–Venetian War was fought between the Republic of Venice and her ... Venetians were embroiled in a conflict with the Knights ...

                    Ottoman–Venetian War (1570–1573)
                    The Fifth Ottoman–Venetian War, also known as the War of Cyprus (Guerra di Cipro) was fought in ...

                    Wallachian and Moldavian campaigns (1462–1483)
                    In 1462, Mehmed II was driven back by Wallachian prince Vlad III Dracula at The Night Attack.
                    Last edited by Spartan; 04-15-2010, 10:15 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Onur
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 2389

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                      I think so



                      Morean War
                      The war was fought between 1684-1699, as part of the wider conflict known as the "Great Turkish War", between the Republic of Venice and the Ottoman Empire.

                      Cretan War (1645–1669)
                      was a conflict between the Republic of Venice and her allies (chief among them the Knights of Malta, the Papal States and France) against the Ottoman Empire and the Barbary States, fought over the island of Crete, Venice's largest and richest overseas possession. The war lasted from 1645 to 1669

                      Ottoman–Venetian War (1714–1718)
                      was fought between the Republic of Venice and the Ottoman Empire between 1714 and 1718

                      Ottoman–Venetian War (1499–1503)
                      The Ottoman–Venetian War of 1499–1503 refers to the naval battles between the Ottoman Empire and the Republic of Venice

                      Ottoman–Venetian War (1463–1479)
                      The Second Ottoman–Venetian War was fought between the Republic of Venice and her ... Venetians were embroiled in a conflict with the Knights ...

                      Ottoman–Venetian War (1570–1573)
                      The Fifth Ottoman–Venetian War, also known as the War of Cyprus (Guerra di Cipro) was fought in ...

                      1462–1483: Wallachian and Moldavian campaigns
                      In 1462, Mehmed II was driven back by Wallachian prince Vlad III Dracula at The Night Attack.



                      I specifically said "BETWEEN the Christians and Muslims of Balkans"...

                      Venetians was the Catholic invaders who used Cyprus as a naval base for their missionary operations to erase Orthodox faith from the world. Also Greeks and all other Orthodox believers supported Turks against our fight vs Venetians since we were the saviors of them from Venetian conversion and Tyranny.

                      We wiped them out quickly anyway. Venetian Knights my ass, sigh

                      Comment

                      • Spartan
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1037

                        #26
                        Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                        I specifically said "BETWEEN the Christians and Muslims of Balkans"...
                        no you didnt
                        this is your original question I responded to -

                        Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                        Tell me a single recorded war between Christians and Muslims in Balkans, 15th century to 1821
                        Those little words make a big difference.

                        The turko-venetian conflict took place in, and was over territories in the Balkans
                        My region fought on the side of the venetians.
                        Last edited by Spartan; 04-15-2010, 11:55 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Spartan
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1037

                          #27
                          Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                          Also Greeks supported Turks against our fight vs Venetians
                          Not all mail2onur, not all

                          Morean war

                          Between 1645 and 1669, the Venetians and the Ottomans fought a long and costly war over the last major Venetian possession in the Aegean, Crete. During this war,the Venetian commander, Francesco Morosini, came into contact with the rebellious Maniots, for a joint campaign in the Morea. In 1659, Morosini landed in the Morea, and together with the Maniots, he took Kalamata. However, he was soon after forced to return to Crete, and the Peloponnesian venture failed.

                          In mid-June, the Venetian fleet moved from the Adriatic towards the Venetian-held Ionian Islands. The first target was the island of Lefkada (Santa Maura), which fell, after a brief siege of 16 days, on 6 August 1684. The Venetians, aided by Greek irregulars, then crossed into the mainland and started raiding the opposite shore of Acarnania

                          Having secured his rear during the previous year, Morosini set his sights upon the Peloponnese, where the Greeks, especially the Maniots, had begun showing signs of revolt and communicated with Morosini, promising to rise up in his aid. Ismail Pasha, the new military commander of the Morea, learned of this and invaded the Mani peninsula with 10,000 men, reinforcing the three forts that the Ottomans already garrisoned, and compelled the Maniots to give up hostages to secure their loyalty.As a result, the Maniots remained uncommitted when, on 25 June 1685, the Venetian army, 8,100 men strong, landed outside the former Venetian fort of Koroni and laid siege to it. The castle surrendered after 49 days, on 11 August, and the garrison was massacred. After this success, Morosini embarked his troops towards the town of Kalamata, in order to encourage the Maniots to revolt. The Venetian army, reinforced by 3,300 Saxons and under the command of General Degenfeld, defeated a Turkish force of ca. 10,000 outside Kalamata on 14 September, and by the end of the month, all of Mani and much of Messenia were under Venetian control.

                          In an effort to aid the Greeks of Himara, who had rebelled against the Turks, and after some successes in northern Albania and Montenegro, the Venetian fleet launched an attack against the Adriatic Ottoman port and fortress of Valona

                          15th century -

                          Kladas, a Greek from Laconia, joined the Venetians in their ongoing war against the Ottomans. He led the Maniots against the Ottomans with Venetian aid until 1479. Kladas invaded the Laconian plain with 14,000 Maniots and killed the Turkish inhabitants.

                          16th century-

                          From 1500 to 1570, Mani kept its autonomy without any invasion from the Ottomans

                          17th century -

                          In 1645, a new Turkish-Venetian War, the so-called "Cretan War" began, during which the Republic of Venice was attempting to defend Crete, one of their provinces since 1204, from the Ottoman Empire, initially under Ibrahim I. The Maniots supported the Venetians.


                          since we were the saviors of them from Venetian conversion and Tyranny.
                          Saviors? haha
                          Not to my people.
                          Or why would the ottomans need to invade mani as late as 1770?
                          The lakonians fought the ottomans tooth and nail from the moment they stepped foot on to the Morea.

                          Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                          We wiped them out quickly anyway.
                          If you consider 300 years of fighting with them 'quickly'
                          Last edited by Spartan; 04-15-2010, 11:43 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                            Not all mail2onur, not all

                            Saviors? haha
                            Not to my people.
                            Or why would the ottomans need to invade mani as late as 1770?
                            The lakonians fought the ottomans tooth and nail from the moment they stepped foot on to the Morea.

                            Then your people was also the traitor to the Patriarch in Istanbul. The Catholic missionary incidents and Venetians was the sworn enemy of Orthodox patriarchy, the head of all Orthodox people.

                            He even sent some clerics to the battles vs Venetians to sanctify the Turkish soldiers to beat the Venetians.

                            The reason of relatively late conquest was; because `till 18th century, Turks didn't have naval fleet as good as Venetians. They were always the supreme on the sea. Ofc this was the case `till 1700s. Turks build great naval battle ships and wiped out Venetians laters.
                            Last edited by Onur; 04-16-2010, 12:52 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Spartan
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1037

                              #29
                              Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                              Then your people was also the traitor to the Patriarch in Istanbul. The Catholic missionary incidents and Venetians was the sworn enemy of Orthodox patriarchy, the head of all Orthodox people.
                              More humour, bravo.
                              You know little of the resolve of my ancestors.
                              Foreign rule, be it from Constantinople, Athens or mars will be contested.
                              My ancestors in the last 1000 years have been truly loyal to only 2 powers (although they have allied with others, they only accepted subordination to 2).
                              1. The byzantine emperors, especially the paleologos line who they were fiercely loyal to.
                              2. King Otto

                              Even the first greek government barely 200 years ago was not recognized by my forefathers, and they contested it vehemently. Look up how the first Greek head of state died (SoM, if you are reading this, you will find it very interesting im sure).

                              My people were never traitors, and id break your face if you said that to me in person.

                              Anyways, you are wrong yet again.
                              Did you know that at the fall of Constantinople thousands of soldiers of the western Roman empire stood by the byzantines when they lost the city?

                              Lets take a look at what the Byzantine empire consisted of in its final years.

                              1204


                              1265


                              1355


                              1400s


                              1453


                              Notice a reoccuring theme in these maps my turkish friend? (south eastern Morea hint hint)
                              Lakonia, Thessaloniki and Constantinople was all that remained of the Byzantine empire at the end.

                              He even sent some clerics to the battles vs Venetians to sanctify the Turkish soldiers to beat the Venetians.
                              Then those are the traitors for bowing to the ottoman (and the emporor Paleologos accordingly moved his 'home base' to Mystras,capital of the Despotate of Morea, for a period), especially if you consider that the southerners had fought and died against the ottoman...side by side with the venetians(catholics).
                              All depends what side you are on when determining who the traitors are .
                              Last edited by Spartan; 04-17-2010, 12:07 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Spartan
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 1037

                                #30
                                Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                                The Catholic missionary incidents and Venetians was the sworn enemy of Orthodox patriarchy, the head of all Orthodox people.
                                This may be true that the leaders of the eastern orthodox church capitulated to the turks and were therefore a 'vassal', but 'sworn enemy of Orthodox patriarchy' is a bit much. The people under the patriarchy were never united on one side or the other. The morea is proof of this!

                                Prior to the ottoman, many attempts at reconciliations of the 2 churches took place (one was even successful for a short time), but the west church pulled a backstab, and relations crumbled again.

                                Under Ottoman rule, the Orthodox Church acquired power as an autonomous millet. This is how 'the eastern christians 'were kept in line' so to speak. Take the 'autonomy' out of the equation, and we get a different evolution of history.
                                Last edited by Spartan; 04-17-2010, 01:40 PM.

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