United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Buktop
    Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 934

    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
    Buktop, are you for real? Are you saying you honestly cannot understand the role of the parliament and executive government in a republic and where its authority comes from and how it is limited? Or are you just clogging up the thread as usual?
    I know the role of the parliament and executive government, I am asking if you know, because your attitudes seem to suggest otherwise, now I have asked you 10 times to answer 3 simple questions, WHY HAVEN'T YOU? Why are you avoiding these questions?
    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

    Never once say you walk upon your final way
    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
    Our long awaited hour will draw near
    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

    Comment

    • Buktop
      Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 934

      Originally posted by Buktop View Post
      Again, read and understand my posts, I left before UMD bylaws were finalised and adopted. A few days ago you were arguing that UMD had too little members who were far too geographically spread out to hold elections. Now that your master has contradicted you, you've changed your tune.
      So you left before the bylaws were finalized and you are here claiming to know something about the internal workings of UMD? You claim to know more than everyone here about the "secret agenda" of UMD and you don't even know the bylaws?
      Why don't you address this while we are at it. How can you claim to know so much about UMD when you don't even know the bylaws? What is your agenda here?
      "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

      Never once say you walk upon your final way
      though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
      Our long awaited hour will draw near
      and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

      Comment

      • Buktop
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 934

        Vangelovski, how about you answer my questions that you have been dodging for at least 10 posts now rather than wasting your precious time thinking up new insults for me?

        Phoenix, you don't have to like me, and you can call me whatever you like, but the fact remains that you cannot disprove my arguments and that is why you resort to such insults. It's been a while since you have added a post with any real substance to these debates.
        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

        Never once say you walk upon your final way
        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
        Our long awaited hour will draw near
        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

        Comment

        • Buktop
          Member
          • Oct 2009
          • 934

          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
          I was a co-founder of UMD, I'm quite aware of what the thinking is in the organisation.
          You were a co-founder and yet you don't even know the bylaws. You left 2 years ago, I don't know why you keep bringing up that you co-founded it because you are obviously trying to destroy it for some personal reason.
          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

          Never once say you walk upon your final way
          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
          Our long awaited hour will draw near
          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

          Comment

          • blackcactus
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 242

            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
            Hi blackcactus,

            this is the crux of the problem, any organization that claims to represent the masses can't afford to be labled "ambiguous".
            I agree, statements should be as clear as possible

            I suspect that press release that Vangelovski high-lighted was for a different audience (other than Macedonians) and some political speak may have been used

            Who they think was the audience should be cleared up so those statements can be put into context (assuming we don't wish UMD to be a militant organisation we "may" understand where they are coming from on this)

            I personally ask the question.. What good work (if any) has UMD done for Macedonia and the Macedonians?

            What my answer is (which changes over time) is how I feel about UMD or any other Macedonian group at any one time

            I have known you a long time Phoenix, you want things out in the open and cleared up, you don't take BS kindly, I fully understand your view on this

            Your brother

            BC

            PS: I hope I didn't confuse you, looking though what I wrote reads like a dogs breakfast
            Last edited by blackcactus; 01-13-2010, 03:30 AM.
            The one who tells the story rules the World - Hopi proverb

            “Your highness, when I said that you are like a stream of bat's piss, I only meant that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark” - Monty Python

            Comment

            • Vangelovski
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 8531

              Originally posted by Buktop View Post
              You were a co-founder and yet you don't even know the bylaws. You left 2 years ago, I don't know why you keep bringing up that you co-founded it because you are obviously trying to destroy it for some personal reason.
              Buktop, I think its time that you show your cards - rather than accusing everyone of "personal" agenda's while hiding behind an internet pseudonym.

              Why do you blindly defend UMD? Are you a UMD member? Are you a UMD Board Member? Why are you acting as an apologist for UMD's blatant support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement? Living in New Jersey (Meto's home state), what are you links to Meto?
              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Buktop, I've answered your ridiculous questions - not only that, but I've taken it about 10 steps further. Try reading it. If you reply with something sensible, maybe we can move on, otherwise, I'll have to revert back to calling you a Charlatan.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Vangelovski
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 8531

                  I know so much about UMD because I was apart of the leadership for four years. The bylaws (as I've already stated) were only started in the final months I was there. I can post the version that I have, but it may not be the final one. You'd better check with your Master just in case he doesn't want you to push that - or do you want to back down now? In fact, the entire time I've publically questioned UMD, I've only kept to their PUBLIC statements. If I wanted to cause real damage, instead of putting them on the right path, I could easily have devulged the contents of internal conversations.

                  As per you'r "knowledge" Charlatan, provide a sensible response to my post - I've already answered your ridiculous questions and taken it about 10 steps forward.
                  Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-13-2010, 04:10 AM.
                  If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                  The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                  Comment

                  • Buktop
                    Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 934

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    I know so much about UMD because I was apart of the leadership for four years. The bylaws (as I've already stated) were only started in the final months I was there. I can post the version that I have, but it may not be the final one. You'd better check with your Master just in case he doesn't want you to push that - or do you want to back down now? In fact, the entire time I've publically questioned UMD, I've only kept to their PUBLIC statements. If I wanted to cause real damage, instead of putting them on the right path, I could easily have devulged the contents of internal conversations.

                    As per you'r "knowledge" Charlatan, provide a sensible response to my post - I've already answered your ridiculous questions and taken it about 10 steps forward.
                    Started? Vangelovski, what was the exact date of your resignation? And what was the exact date of the approval of the bylaws? You claim to know so much, and yet until yesterday you didn't even know that UMD board members held elections... You were complaining to me that "a democratic organization should hold elections" and yet you didn't even know that they do hold them.

                    You were a board member for 4 years and you don't know anything about UMD... or you are intentionally misrepresenting the facts. Why don't you come clean?
                    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                    Never once say you walk upon your final way
                    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                    Our long awaited hour will draw near
                    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                    Comment

                    • Buktop
                      Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 934

                      In the opinion of James Madison
                      Representative democracy (Republic) is a form of government founded on the principle of elected individuals representing the people, as opposed to either autocracy or direct democracy.

                      The representatives form an independent ruling body (for an election period) charged with the responsibility of acting in the people's interest, but not as their proxy representatives; that is, not necessarily always according to their wishes, but with enough authority to exercise swift and resolute initiative in the face of changing circumstances.
                      Was that so hard Vangelovski? You have strayed into constitutional mandate when all I asked for was a few simple questions concerning representative bodies of Macedonia. Now why don't you show me the relevant articles of the Macedonian constitution that expressly prohibit parliamentarians from voting on a new flag.

                      I am not saying that it is right, I am saying due to a flawed constitution these parliamentarians have the right to negotiate. And not only that, but the fact that the citizens that voted for the parliamentarians did not object also signifies consent (as I have argued with you about before)
                      "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                      Never once say you walk upon your final way
                      though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                      Our long awaited hour will draw near
                      and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                      Comment

                      • Buktop
                        Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 934

                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Buktop, I've answered your ridiculous questions - not only that, but I've taken it about 10 steps further. Try reading it. If you reply with something sensible, maybe we can move on, otherwise, I'll have to revert back to calling you a Charlatan.
                        Everyone take a good look at this thread and the amount of times I have asked Vangelovski the same questions and yet he refuses to answer... Why? Because he does not want to admit he is wrong.

                        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                        Never once say you walk upon your final way
                        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                        Our long awaited hour will draw near
                        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                        Comment

                        • Buktop
                          Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 934

                          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                          Buktop, I think its time that you show your cards - rather than accusing everyone of "personal" agenda's while hiding behind an internet pseudonym.

                          Why do you blindly defend UMD? Are you a UMD member? Are you a UMD Board Member? Why are you acting as an apologist for UMD's blatant support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement? Living in New Jersey (Meto's home state), what are you links to Meto?
                          Why does my name concern you so much? What does my name have to do with the content of my posts?

                          My defense is not blind and I have answered that question several times already, no I am not a UMD member or board member. Not apologizing for anything, you have yet to show where UMD supports the interim accord or framework agreement other than your misinterpreted quotes. I worked with Meto in MOYANA a few years ago, after that we lost touch.

                          Vangelovski, have you ever even met with Meto? Or any of the board members in America?
                          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                          Never once say you walk upon your final way
                          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                          Our long awaited hour will draw near
                          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8531

                            Charlatan,

                            Did you read my post? I'll dumb it down for you.

                            A parliament and/or government is LIMITED by the Constitution. This means that the parliament and/or government ONLY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS THEM TO - NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND - EVERYTHING ELSE IS OFF BOUNDS.

                            ITS NOT A CASE OF THE PARLAIMENT AND/OR GOVERNMENT HAVING FREE RANGE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT UNLESS THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THEY CAN'T. DO YOU GET IT???

                            If the constitution does not ALLOW it, then by defualt they don't have the authority. They only have the authority to do those specific things that the constitution ALLOWS. The constitution would have to specifically ALLOW the parliament and/or government to negotiate with a third party the contents of the constitution. THE MACEDONIAN CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROVIDE THEM WITH THAT AUTHORITY.

                            Seeing as you mention James Madison, why don't you actually read up on the founding fathers and see what role they saw for Congress and whether they believed Congress could act outside of the paramaters of the constitution.

                            READ A BOOK - ANY BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                            Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-13-2010, 05:15 AM.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8531

                              Charlatan,

                              Your defence is blind. I just provided a quote where UMD specifically called on Greece to abide by the Accord.
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                                Started? Vangelovski, what was the exact date of your resignation? And what was the exact date of the approval of the bylaws? You claim to know so much, and yet until yesterday you didn't even know that UMD board members held elections... You were complaining to me that "a democratic organization should hold elections" and yet you didn't even know that they do hold them.

                                You were a board member for 4 years and you don't know anything about UMD... or you are intentionally misrepresenting the facts. Why don't you come clean?
                                Charlatan,

                                Please show me when in the past five years UMD held elections? If you want to know whether I was a UMD member for four years or not, ask your mentor. While your at it, ask him how hard he wants you to push on here and how much information he wants to be provided?
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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