United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    Originally posted by Rogi View Post
    It's my personal opinion. I can no longer speak for UMD, since I resigned from the Board.

    But I think the point I made above is what creates some unnecessary confusion, because of the different views/definitions of terms like 'solution'.
    There's definitely some confusion around what UMD means by "solution", particularly when you look at its President's statements and their Press Releases.

    Rogi, if I may ask, why did you resign from the Board?
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Phoenix
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 4671

      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
      I used to refer to him as a "charlatan". One definition of this is: a person who pretends to more knowledge or skill than he or she possesses.
      Vangelovski, "charlatan" is good...I guess a man should understand his limitations...

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        Originally posted by blackcactus View Post
        May I make a suggestion that UMD and other organisational posts be moved to a subforum called Organisations or something similar

        This will clear up the mess on the main page, and allow anyone wanting to see all organistional posts together, or avoid them if they so choose


        PS: Hi Vangelovski, everything you bolded above could be seen in any number of ways, and for any number of reasons depending on your strategic leanings. I don't feel doing this is helpful because it has no way of getting consensus and will only generate ill feeling between all of us, which is not wise

        Regards

        blackcactus
        Not a silly idea BC
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • blackcactus
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 242

          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
          And by highlighting UMDs support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement, you feel this is undermining what they "really" want to say?

          Maybe

          Our personal strategies for Macedonia give it meanings that others can not or wont see, therefor it generates an argument that can not be solved

          If we need proof, firstly look at actual work done, and achievements, then look at clear black and white statements from the organisation it self, then individuals next (as they can make mistakes and miscalls)

          But firstly it's the results and/or work done that counts the most, watch carefully, which I'm sure you will

          Cheers

          BC

          PS: I'm just talking here, I'm no authority, so take what I say lightly, Just do what you feel is best for Macedonia wisely
          The one who tells the story rules the World - Hopi proverb

          “Your highness, when I said that you are like a stream of bat's piss, I only meant that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark” - Monty Python

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            Originally posted by blackcactus View Post
            Maybe

            Our personal strategies for Macedonia give it meanings that others can not or wont see, therefor it generates an argument that can not be solved

            If we need proof, firstly look at actual work done, and achievements, then look at clear black and white statements from the organisation it self, then individuals next (as they can make mistakes and miscalls)

            But firstly it's the results and/or work done that counts the most, watch carefully, which I'm sure you will

            Cheers

            BC

            PS: I'm just talking here, I'm no authority, so take what I say lightly, Just do what you feel is best for Macedonia wisely
            I was a co-founder of UMD, I'm quite aware of what the thinking is in the organisation.
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • TajnataKniga
              Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 196

              proud

              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              I was a co-founder of UMD, I'm quite aware of what the thinking is in the organisation.
              r u proud u co-founded it? when did u leave?

              Comment

              • TajnataKniga
                Member
                • Dec 2009
                • 196

                hundreds of views & only 25 votes. sad.

                Comment

                • Phoenix
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 4671

                  Originally posted by TajnataKniga View Post
                  hundreds of views & only 25 votes. sad.
                  Kniga, sad is the fact that somebody thought a poll on this is necessary.

                  Comment

                  • TajnataKniga
                    Member
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 196

                    i disagree. i voted. r u afraid to vote?

                    Comment

                    • blackcactus
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 242

                      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                      I was a co-founder of UMD, I'm quite aware of what the thinking is in the organisation.
                      I see, your trying to find proof to show to others what you know of them

                      If so you will need proof that is black and white and potent, preferably proof of the results and work that they are mismanaging

                      But alluding to statements that can be interpreted many ways wont work as it only divides people, which harms us all

                      Cheers
                      The one who tells the story rules the World - Hopi proverb

                      “Your highness, when I said that you are like a stream of bat's piss, I only meant that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark” - Monty Python

                      Comment

                      • Phoenix
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 4671

                        Originally posted by TajnataKniga View Post
                        i disagree. i voted. r u afraid to vote?
                        kniga, don't be silly...

                        Comment

                        • indigen
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 1558

                          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                          There's definitely some confusion around what UMD means by "solution", particularly when you look at its President's statements and their Press Releases.
                          IMO, for any Macedonian with an ounce of patriotic feeling and political nous, it is easily discerned that "UMD" is a Ramkovist support group, with all the related ideological baggage implied in belonging to such a political segment of Macedonian politics. This one-man band and cheering squad is heavily promoted by various Ramkovist political structures and media outlets in RoM and beyond in order to promote and endorse all past capitulations with a positive spin and to act - in the name of the Macedonian Diaspora - as a rubber stamp for FUTURE planned deconstruction agendas for Macedonia and the Macedonian ethno-national identity and historical heritage.

                          One does not need much more info than the following to know that this group is based on Ramkovist ideology:
                          UMD Remembers President Trajkovski


                          NB: BT (along with LG and BC) was the main political tool used by the authors of FA to see through its enactment and initial implementation and was correctly identified as a TRAITOR by ALL Macedonians with basic self-respect and national dignity.

                          Comment

                          • indigen
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2009
                            • 1558

                            Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                            Now, Dr. Igor Janev has proposed an excellent solution for Macedonia to have its' Constitutional name recognised at the UN.
                            The Macedonian Cause
                            Ensuring the absolute recognition, acknowledgement and acceptance by the International Community of the;

                            1) national, ethno-cultural and historic name of Macedonia,
                            2) Macedonian people, language and identity
                            3) Macedonian culture, symbols and folklore
                            4) Macedonian ancestry, heritage and history in its entirety
                            5) Macedonian Orthodox Church
                            Why do you, Rogi, continue to use misguided Gligorov era terminology that undermines our cause by implying that Macedonia and Macedonians have such shallow roots that do not reach past that of the 1991 Constitution?

                            Comment

                            • Phoenix
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 4671

                              Originally posted by blackcactus View Post
                              I see, your trying to find proof to show to others what you know of them

                              If so you will need proof that is black and white and potent, preferably proof of the results and work that they are mismanaging

                              But alluding to statements that can be interpreted many ways wont work as it only divides people, which harms us all

                              Cheers
                              Hi blackcactus,

                              this is the crux of the problem, any organization that claims to represent the masses can't afford to be labled "ambiguous".

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Here's another typical UMD statement:

                                The Prime Minister’s threat shows that Macedonia, or any other nation, cannot rely on the Hellenic Republic to honor its treaty obligations as this threat violates the 1995 Interim Agreement between the two nations...

                                Macedonia changed its flag, amended its constitution, and accepted the use of the provisional reference all pursuant to the Interim Agreement and has fully abided by such agreement...

                                The United Macedonian Diaspora urges Greece to end its diplomatic blackmail and abide by the rules to which it agreed to in the Interim Agreement...
                                http://umdiaspora.org/index.php?opti...d=309&Itemid=1
                                Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-13-2010, 02:45 AM.
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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