Possible Etymology of Alexander

[Soldier of Macedon]

I have merged this thread with an older one based on the same subject (name of Alexander). I would suggest that those interested read the earlier posts at the beginning of the thread.

No, Ily is just the name of the Macedonian equivalent to Helios. In fact the name "sonce" (our word for sun) is derived for the words s-on-ti-si, meaning" you are with him" (the sun god)

The Macedonian word for 'sun' comes from Old Macedonian -slŭnĭce, ultimately from PIE *séhaul or *sóh₂wl. You seem like a good bloke, so a word of advice, don't waste your time with the works of Vasil Iljov, check the below thread to see why:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1552&highlight=vasil+iljov

If you have such a word you should trace it's history through your recent Bulgarian, Serbian or even Russian and Polish literature of the previous four or five centuries.......

Our literature is rich, and it is Macedonian.

So you meant that ancient Macedonians did not possess the sound F, not the letter Φ. Actually, that’s not very clear.

Actually, it is rather clear. There are sound changes that clearly distinguish ancient Macedonian from Greek, and demonstrate its natural proximity to other Paleo-Balkan languages like Thracian and Illyrian.

These effects are not the rule. E.g. Xanthos (with a Θ) appears in famous Macedonian headstone from Pella (around 420-400 BC). "Xanthos son of Demetrios and Amadika"

That is written in Doric Greek, not Macedonian.

[Sweet Sixteen]

Our literature is rich, and it is Macedonian.

Which literature are you talking about? In which centuries?

Actually, it is rather clear. There are sound changes that clearly distinguish ancient Macedonian from Greek, and demonstrate its natural proximity to other Paleo-Balkan languages like Thracian and Illyrian.

I mentioned some of these changes above which are frequent (?). My point was that these letters do not ALWAYS change. Φ does not always become B

That is written in Doric Greek, not Macedonian.

This isn't Doric Greek, it's simply Greek. It's not even a phrase (as in Pella curse tablet), so one cannot categorise it as Doric or Attic or anything. This inscription shows that both ΞΑΝΔΟΣ and ΞΑΝΘΟΣ have been found in Macedonia.

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[Sweet Sixteen]

I have merged this thread with an older one based on the same subject (name of Alexander). I would suggest that those interested read the earlier posts at the beginning of the thread.

I've read these 3 or 4 pages, and for the most part, they are still trying to figure out what genitive case is (Alexandrou, Philippou etc). Should I bother to explain it or is it clear by now?

Yes, in all Greek coins the names are in genitive case, which (supposedly) means Alexander's or Philip's (money/currency). That's why it says ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ instead of ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ. The cases (in the… case of Alexander) are:

Nominative: Alexandros (Αλέξανδρος) is a God.
Genitive: This is Alexandrou (Αλεξάνδρου) horse.
Accusative: You should call Alexandron (Αλέξανδρον).
Dative: I gave Alexandro (Αλεξάνδρω) his money.
Vocative: Hey. Alexandre! (Αλέξανδρε) Beware, the enemy is coming.

Also,
yes, many ancient coins are badly, (almost) stupidly and inartistically designed. The name that is supposed to be written does not fit and they write 9 of 10 letters (ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟ), or half the name or only the 3 first letters (ΑΛΕ) etc. Sometimes, the letters appear in a very bad manner.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I've read these 3 or 4 pages, and for the most part, they are still trying to figure out what genitive case is (Alexandrou, Philippou etc).

The main point is not the case ending of his name on coins, but the fact that Babylonians (and others) did not record his name in the Greek manner, which may imply that the native form of the name was not Alexandros. Read the first post.

Which literature are you talking about? In which centuries?

The Macedonian literature that developed from the 9th century onward.

I mentioned some of these changes above which are frequent (?). My point was that these letters do not ALWAYS change. Φ does not always become B

That is either due to Greek influence or because the inscription itself was in Greek. Otherwise, the rule of that sound change is generally clear: PIE *bh produced Φ in Greek and β in Macedonian.

This isn't Doric Greek, it's simply Greek. It's not even a phrase (as in Pella curse tablet), so one cannot categorise it as Doric or Attic or anything. This inscription shows that both ΞΑΝΔΟΣ and ΞΑΝΘΟΣ have been found in Macedonia.

I thought you were making reference to the Pella tablet. In any case, that inscription is Greek, not Macedonian. Several other Greek inscriptions can also be found in other non-Greek territories like Thrace and Illyria.

[Chakalarov]

Here's an interesting perspective I have thought about. It has been generally thought that the ancient Macedonian language was more-or-less related to Thracian and Illyrian. Polybius (book XXIX, 6.2) even hints that Macedonians and Thracians are of the same people. The city of Philippoupolis in Thrace, was recorded in Thracian as Pulpudeva with the deva ending denoting city.

Pulpu seems to represent the genitive case in Thracian. In my opinion, it sheds more light on what the Macedonians might have called Phillip in their own language.

Now relating this back to the name Alexander, Alexander also established a city for himself in Thrace called Alexandropolis. Have there been any records about what the Thracians called this city? I have tried looking, but could not find much. Perhaps someone else can help out with this. If it even exists, the Thracian form of Alexandropolis would provide an amazing insight into what the native Macedonian form of Alexander might have been.

[George S.]

it was called Dedeagach prior to alexandropolous.The greeks renamed it to alexandropolous in 1920

[Sweet Sixteen]

it was called Dedeagach prior to alexandropolous.The greeks renamed it to alexandropolous in 1920

You'd better take a look at these cities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_%28disambiguation%29

Alexandroupolis is a modern city founded around 1850 and renamed in 1920 not after Alexander the Great, but after the short-lived tragic puppet king Alexander (1917-1920).

[Chakalarov]

You'd better take a look at these cities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_%28disambiguation%29

Alexandroupolis is a modern city founded around 1850 and renamed in 1920 not after Alexander the Great, but after the short-lived tragic puppet king Alexander (1917-1920).

I am referring to Alexandropolis Maedica.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandropolis_Maedica

[George S.]

what is unknown to you it had a Macedonian name and your govt changed it after the population exchanges. to alexandropolous.SO WHAT DOES THIS PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT NATIVE TO THE AEGEAN at best you are GREEK STTLERS OR COLONISERS.YOU call settling in a place HELLINISING.I.IN actual fact it says that Alexandropolous was a military outpost NOT A CITY as you claim.YOU are DEAD WRONG I challenge you to Disprove it.Furthr on the writer Bosworth says that taking of thrace by the Macedonians made the demise of the thracians altogether they disappeared.
Alexander had a practice of naming towns or cities after himself some were cities or towns & some were simply military outposts.After conquering these places alexander had a perfect right to do as he pleased.I'm sure you realise that alexander wasn't greek at all and he wasn't spreading helenism at all.Surprised??Real Hellenism stopped after alexander conquered Greece.

[George S.]

SS this one is for you wherever the greeks settled colonised call it what you will they left their mark.That is not to say that they are Macedonian.Even that they lived in the Macedonian area they are NOT NATIVE & cannot simply become acedonian just because they were born or lived there.The real native Macedonians will have the privilege of calling themselves Macedonians.Your govt tried to displace the real Macedonians in the 1920's by putting prosfeges or Pontiacs in the area & now they are calling them selves Greekmacedonians.No such thing.You can call yourself greek or turk but not Macedonian .

[Sweet Sixteen]

what is unknown to you it had a Macedonian name and your govt changed it after the population exchanges. to alexandropolous.

The previous name of (modern) Alexandroupolis was Dedeagac which I understand is Turkish, not Macedonian. Alexandroupolis is in Evros, Western Thrace (not in Macedonia), in what is today the most Eastern district of Greece, close to Greek-Turkish borders.

SO WHAT DOES THIS PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT NATIVE TO THE AEGEAN at best you are GREEK STTLERS OR COLONISERS.YOU call settling in a place HELLINISING.I.IN actual fact it says that Alexandropolous was a military outpost NOT A CITY as you claim.YOU are DEAD WRONG I challenge you to Disprove it.Furthr on the writer Bosworth says that taking of thrace by the Macedonians made the demise of the thracians altogether they disappeared.
Alexander had a practice of naming towns or cities after himself some were cities or towns & some were simply military outposts.

I also read this modern theory, that Alexandropolis (Alexandria of Maedi) was mostly a military outpost and not a city, but it's not to be taken seriously. Sources are clear that this city, previously called Iamphorynna was the capital of the Maedi tribe and it still existed as a city more than 100 years after its' renaming. It is believed to have been close to modern Petrich, at the Greek-Bulgarian border, North of the Serres district.

Thracians (generally) and Maedi (specifically) did not disappear at Alexander’s time. Actually they were still causing big troubles to Romans 250 years later. Spatracus (according to Plutarch) was a Maedian Thracian.

After conquering these places alexander had a perfect right to do as he pleased.I'm sure you realise that alexander wasn't greek at all and he wasn't spreading helenism at all.Surprised??Real Hellenism stopped after alexander conquered Greece.

I don't quite realise that. So he gave Greek names to all these cities and you are somehow searching if these cities had other non-Greek names.

[George S.]

when the Macedonians took them over as well as other places the thracians soon disappeared.It was for a while?? a military outpost.
i can see how if there were settlers that they would have co names for places in greek of course the Macedonians would have their own names.One you understand that the greeks settled everywhere they kept their identity as greek & obviously they left their mark as greeks.
THe big problem comes when you try & jump the hurdle and claim becase of xyz tody spoke in greek.he greeks & Macedonian are the same.Two different race of people cannot be one.No matter what you do you can't claim both races.Yives abn impression that everybou are greek to begin with.
I would say the Macedonians would have their own version of names.THe greeks added their own ous etc to Hellenise them.The greeks don't seem to like using their neighbours real names they put their own seal of approval.Thats why at first it seems greek but on closer inspection you see the real names.

[Nikolaj]

Assyrian King Ashurbanipal name in Greek

I was interested to understand why the Greeks always say 'Alexandros' when referring to Alexander the Great.

If we are to believe anything named with a Koine dialect is Greek, does that mean the Assyrian King Ashurbanipal was Greek too?

Akkadian: Aššur-bāni-apli
Greek: Sardanapalos
Latin: Sardanapalus

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal

It makes sense when you read about Macedonia in general, including Alexander from a Greek philosopher, his name may in fact sound Greek. However, does this really conclude that he is Greek? Clearly not when it comes to the pronunciation of Ashurbanipal's name.

When you are to read about Alexander from the Romans, wasn't he portrayed as Alexander? What confuses me further is to why in Latin the Greek sounding portion of Alexandros it is missing when it comes to wording it (who is supposedly Greek in today's time), where it is consistent with Ashurbanipal's name.

Just some assumptions, please inform me on how these things work if possible. I would like an explanation and would appreciate further input .

[Soldier of Macedon]

Nikolaj, I have merged your thread with an existing one of the same topic. You may find some useful information here.

[spitfire]

I was interested to understand why the Greeks always say 'Alexandros' when referring to Alexander the Great.

If we are to believe anything named with a Koine dialect is Greek, does that mean the Assyrian King Ashurbanipal was Greek too?

Akkadian: Aššur-bāni-apli
Greek: Sardanapalos
Latin: Sardanapalus

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal

It makes sense when you read about Macedonia in general, including Alexander from a Greek philosopher, his name may in fact sound Greek. However, does this really conclude that he is Greek? Clearly not when it comes to the pronunciation of Ashurbanipal's name.

When you are to read about Alexander from the Romans, wasn't he portrayed as Alexander? What confuses me further is to why in Latin the Greek sounding portion of Alexandros it is missing when it comes to wording it (who is supposedly Greek in today's time), where it is consistent with Ashurbanipal's name.

Just some assumptions, please inform me on how these things work if possible. I would like an explanation and would appreciate further input .

What is it exactly you would like to know?

The misunderstanding comes from the various forms of the name when used in several cases.
For instance:

Alexander=Alexandros
The Kingdom of Alexander=To vasilio tou Alexandrou

The prefix Alex- in greek means something that repels. For instance: Alexikeravno=lighting rod. The one that repels lightning. Alexiptoto=parachute. The one that repels the fall.
Andras=Man (of gender)
Of the man=tou andros

Changing the ending of the words is common in greek in numerous cases. It's grammar.