Macedonian Surnames

[Constellation]

Originally Posted by Gocka

Yes that's what Dragan means. Do you parents speak Macedonian?

Yes, they are fluent (they were born there and grow up there and went to school there). I learned from them.

As for your comments to Dragan:

To e logicno da pomislis ama za zal, ima mnogu nasi so neznat ni dva zbora. Po gotovo decava so se rodeni vo stranstvo, imat golem prosekt so neznat ni da zborvat, a ne kamoli da citet i da pisat na kirilica. A ovaj tipov, neznam, znajme site deka nesto e sumlivo, ama do sega nemat nisto receno protiv Makedonci, i site odgovori so gi davat mislam se tocni. Mislam deka e Makedonec, samo ne gledat deka nacinot so se pocna bese mnogu sumliv.

This is not going to be a literal word for word translation. But here goes:

Basically, you are stating something to the effect you are bemoaning that it is not a logical argument against my identity (because I do not known Macedonian). There are many of our people or nation who do not know how to speak (Macedonian). The justification you make is that there are many Macedonians born oversees, and thus do not know the language, read and write in Cyrillic. All of you find him suspicious (sumilivo), but up to the present time, he has not done anything against Macedonians. You think all my words or most my words I have written are accurate. Mislam deka e Makedondec, or in English, “I think he is Macedonian”.

I can't quite understand the last sentence.

The last sentence is an admonition of sorts, a warning. Samo (something near “only”) ne gledat (don't watch or observe) deka (how) nacinot (our own) so se pocna (began) bese (without) mnogu (many) sumliv (suspicion).

How did I do?

[Gocka]

Not to bad,

Nacinot means in a certain manner/way the way, the manner in which.
You confused it with Nasiot, One of ours

Originally Posted by Constellation

Yes, they are fluent (they were born there and grow up there and went to school there). I learned from them.

As for your comments to Dragan:



This is not going to be a literal word for word translation. But here goes:



How did I do?

[Gocka]

Constellation,

I am actually intrigued, you have a lot of knowledge. Especially about the past. What is your interpretation of Modern day Macedonians, living in the Republic of Macedonia or as it is known as FYROM. You have spoken a lot about Macedonians of the past but what about today. What are the people of FYROM today?

Are they direct decedents of the Ancient Macedonians?

[DraganOfStip]

Originally Posted by Constellation

Dragan agrees with Lavce, and begins to posit a conspiracy theory of how I am using Google and Google Maps to deceive the forum. He then later asks why I don't know Macedonian, and ends with the request that I should yell (bekni, or as pronounced in English, “veeknee”), so it can be filmed or recorded on lenta/tape.

You obviously haven't seen the cult Macedonian movie "Tetoviranje",otherwise you would have known the meaning of "bekni be,ke mi snema lenta".
Online language translation tools are too literal and when you write a bigger sentence for translation,you get something that isn't making much sense.

[Constellation]

Originally Posted by Gocka

Constellation,

I am actually intrigued, you have a lot of knowledge. Especially about the past. What is your interpretation of Modern day Macedonians, living in the Republic of Macedonia or as it is known as FYROM. You have spoken a lot about Macedonians of the past but what about today. What are the people of FYROM today?

Are they direct decedents of the Ancient Macedonians?

Assessing who modern Macedonians are, and whether they descend from the ancient Macedonians, I suspect largely rests on a number of factors, but I will briefly discuss three.

The first is genetic. IGENEA's analysis on modern Macedonians establishes that we are 30% ancient Macedonian. I'm not sure how iGENEA can derive this number, but it is consistent with available scientific evidence that establishes are our home in the Balkans long before the ancient Macedonians were known as Macedonians. So yes, I believe we do descend from the ancient Macedonians, but not purely. The Balkans are mixed, and I have no doubt, again according to all the available data, the Macedonians are mixed too, just like the Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbians, Bosnians, etc.

The second is linguistic. What language did the ancient Macedonians speak? No one really knows. It was either a now dead language or early version of Slavic. Even if the ancient Macedonians spoke a different language than modern Macedonians, I do not believe this negates our identity. This is sort of like saying, because I was not born in Macedonia, and because I speak English, I cannot call myself Macedonian. And then there is also the obvious examples of Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Algerians, Tunisians, etc.

The third is cultural. Again, similar to language, this is hard to establish.

Personally, I am not sure whether Slavic is indigenous in the Balkans or was brought here from the north. I will be honest and state I have changed my mind a few times on this issue. Presently, I think it may be logical to argue that Slavic is not indigenous to the Balkans, but our genetic origins are. We probably adopted Slavic in the past.

1. The so-called Slav gene, R1a (at least in Europe), seems to have originated in Asia and from there migrated to the regions of Russia, Ukraine, etc. From there, it appears it spread throughout Europe, including the Balkans. If the R1a in the Balkans is Slavic, it appears to only make sense if it came from the north, and not from the south. The historic record confirms that people now identified as "Slavs" did invade the Balkans, and doubtless admixture ensued. But not much, and it is pretty uniform throughout the region, as far south as Crete.

2. It seems more consistent with ancient history and Biblical history to argue the ancient Macedonians in the distant past shared the same ancestor as Greek tribes. If you look at the University of Spain HLA study, it states Macedonians are closest to Cretans and Italians. Greeks mixed with Ethiopians, which separates them from the older Mediterranean nations. This appears odd, as Cretans are Greek speakers and Italians are Italic speakers, but a closer examination proves otherwise.

If Macedonians descended from Javan's son "Tiras" (Thrace), Macedonians would probably be less related to Cretans and Italians. The Scriptures and genealogical tests seem to suggest that the ancient Macedonians, while related to Thracians and Illyrians, were closer to Greeks. If Slavic was ingenious to the Balkans, and the Macedonians, Illyrians, and Thracians all spoke it, this would seem to contradict both Scripture and science.

Part of the problem is that Javan's brother, Magog, seems to be the ancestor of the people known as "Slavs". If this is so, than Thracians, Illyrians, and Macedonians could not have spoken Slavic, unless the language came from Magog's descendants from up north, and forced on the inhabitants in the south. This is what secular historians in the ancient world seem to suggest. And this what the R1a haplogroup seems to suggest.

Even if Slavic was indigenous to the Balkans, I reject the argument that sometime in the distant past the people of the southern Balkans migrated north to central and northern Europe and intermixed with them, and taught them our language. There is no hard evidence to establish this, and it contradicts hard science.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Gocka

If you detectives want to slip him up then you are better of using Latin and not Cyrillic, since he can use the internet to translate Cyrillic, but Latin would require understating of the words.

Have you ever heard of a transliterator tool? It is very simple to transliterate Macedonian from Latin to Cyrillic using such a tool, and then translate the Cyrillic to English in Google Translate. One problem for imposters is what Dragan mentions below.

Originally Posted by DraganOfStip

Online language translation tools are too literal and when you write a bigger sentence for translation,you get something that isn't making much sense.

Exactly, but for somebody that makes half an effort, they can try to infer what the overall gist of the paragraph is with some success, despite some letters being lost in Latin to Cyrillic transliteration.


Personally, I am not yet convinced that he is Macedonian, but in the same token I don't really care if he isn't so long as he doesn't breach the forum rules. I just don't appreciate deceptive people or see the need to conceal general details about ethnic origins or where one hails from. It suggests a lack of regard for other members. If he is perceived in a particular way it is because he has been cryptic from the very beginning about his background and only recently 'revealed' where his family comes from after several members continually questioned him about it. Further, he has opened a number of threads on certain topics in a seemingly provocative manner. He has presented himself as controversial, deliberate or not is another matter, but over the years I have seen many similarly controversial characters join our forum and pretend to be something they're not. Nobody here should apologise for being sceptical. If he does turn out to be a maggot, he wouldn't be the first and I am sure he won't be the last. If he doesn't, then he can use this experience as a lesson to improve his introductory skills in future discourse with other Macedonians.

[George S.]

Con you don't sound like a macedonian and the fact you don't speak it makes it certain you are a maggott.I have some relatives from gevgelia in actual fact i can check if you give us your details.Be it known that gevgelia is well known to greeks as its on the border.
Also you were warned not to post slavic bs when the topic was covered in other threads.Not only that but on varoius things about protoslavic history.I can see you have an agenda because you only talk about slavic things and you bring up so many things.Both Dragan and Som are right they got you figured out from the start.I know what you are doing is casting aspersions about our identity as macedonians. thats why you bring up so many things to do with the past.Typical maggott behaviour.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by George S.

Con you don't sound like a macedonian and the fact you don't speak it makes it certain you are a maggott.

George, there are Macedonians who don't speak the Macedonian language. That is not a reason for one to be called a maggot, which is a term more appropriately applied to a person who pretends to be Macedonian for the purpose of performing some sort of twisted and deluded charade.

[lavce pelagonski]

Con how about you start writing in Macedonian to our questions its not that hard. We dont want you to translate what we say. Your just making it hard on yourself.