Financial Crisis in Greece

[Onur]

After Loukanikos the Riot Dog, Athens, Greece gets a new symbol of hope and global resistance that makes its way into the limelight...the Riot Granny!

The Riot Granny, fed up with police brutality, appeared out of nowhere determined to attack the greek riot police with stones and marbles. The footage is from October 19th during the Athens riots against the austerity measures
Riot granny (Και με τις κουκούλες και με τα ταγι�*ρ) - YouTube

[SirGeorge8600]

I gotta remind you that these equipments costs billions to buy and 100s of millions for maintenance fees every year. So, it`s quite obvious that where they spent all that money and how they managed to create this pile of debt.

Well now you can see why there are so many protests and Papandreau is heavily hated.

[SirGeorge8600]

Lol the police will side with the people? Those cops have fat pensions, fat salaries, and if you look at many pics...fat bellies from their horrid starvation....lol.

I honestly think the Greek people won't go that far...they seem too laid back and lazy...protesting has become another excuse for a sick day. Damn unionists.

[Onur]

I think the Greek PM Papandreu found a way to disclaim the overwhelming responsibility of Greek bankruptcy. He announced that his government will organize a referendum to either implement the new treaty&loan given to them by the troika or say "NO" to all the measures and officially go bust.

Papandreou calls referendum on Brussels deal
Prime Minister George Papandreou called a referendum on a new EU aid package on Monday and announced that he would ask for a vote of confidence to secure support for his policy for the remainder of his four-year term, which expires in 2013.

"We trust citizens, we believe in their judgment, we believe in their decision," he told Pasok MPs.

Eurozone leaders agreed last week a second, 130bn euro bailout for the cash-strapped country as well as a 50-percent write-down on its crippling debt to make it sustainable.

Speaking to his ruling PASOK party's parliamentary group on Monday afternoon, Papandreou said it was "the time for the citizens to reply responsibly. Do they want us to implement it or reject it? If the people do not want it, then it shall not be implemented. If yes, we shall proceed ... we never resigned from our responsibilities."

The referendum will be held in a few weeks, after the agreement is finalised, Papandreou said.

Nearly 60 percent of Greeks view the EU summit agreement of October 27 on the new bailout package as negative or probably negative, a survey showed on Saturday.

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49884

If Greeks say YES, then Papandreu can continue his governance with fresh confidence vote and if Greeks says NO, then Papandreu can say something like "We are bust because you Greeks wanted it to be that way and now face the consequences". So it`s win-win for Papandreu.

But as the article says, according to the latest polls, majority of Greeks already doesn't approve the new measures dictated by the troika. I think Papandreu government scared from the inevitable death in upcoming months. It looks like they found a good way to be able to disclaim everything, then run away for their lives from the possible social explosion.

[Risto the Great]

Oh the old referendum trick.
Macedonians know it well.

[Stojacanec]

Hasn’t the government got any balls? Why leave this major macroeconomic policy to a referendum of the people. Surely they have economists who should be consulted on the best way forward.

Life is tough in the Balkans, Greeks can't survive on loans indefinitely. There are austerity measures implemented all over Europe, even in America people are losing big. I don't see protesting and rioting on a large scale on a daily basis there.

I think Greeks need a reality check. They need to climb down a few notches to where they really are.

[Onur]

Hasn�t the government got any balls? Why leave this major macroeconomic policy to a referendum of the people. Surely they have economists who should be consulted on the best way forward.

Good point but what if these economists already said that there is no way to avoid bankruptcy?? I believe thats the case and thats why Greek PM decided to do a referendum. This is just an easy way to share some part of the burden.

[makedonche]

Good point but what if these economists already said that there is no way to avoid bankruptcy?? I believe thats the case and thats why Greek PM decided to do a referendum. This is just an easy way to share some part of the burden.

Onur
Spot on assesment, many international economists, finance experts and entrepanuers have all being saying it's impossible for Greece to survive without going bankrupt. The only ones dragging out this whole sorry saga are the ones who have the most to lose or gain from it - the EU, and I'm sure they are just delaying the process while the French & Germans look for ways to spread the losses rather than take a big hit on their own, or admit that the EU is a failure!

[Voltron]

I have said it a million times. The deal was mostly done for the European banks.
I also said a default would be more favorable than this charade.
Papandreou probably managed to find a crowbar and pry his head out of his ass and realise that in 10 years we would be in the same situation with the IMF whereas with a default we can manage to build up the country in more favorable way without foreign intervention. The latter is not something European banks like to hear. Well...

[Voltron]

We dont need a team of economists to figure this out. Just common sense.
Here is a good article for those interested.

Viewpoint: Greece should default and abandon the euro

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15452180

[Sputnik]

Greece should default, abandon the Euro and exit the Union all together. So should the remaining other members.

[Sputnik]

Soros: Greek debt "agreement" will collapse in three months

Monday, 31 October 2011
Veteran investor George Soros has attacked the lack of leadership at the top of the eurozone and said that the new Brussels ''deal'' to solve the debt crisis will last only between ''one day and three months''.
Mr Soros, who achieved worldwide fame when he bet against sterling remaining within the Exchange Rate Mechanism in the 1990s, said the 50per cent ''haircut'' on private bond holders would reduce Greek debt by only 20per cent.
He said that was insufficient to stop an economic decline in Greece which would lead to greater social unrest.
His words came as the eurozone appeared to be heading for further economic trouble as investors started to express scepticism about the rescue deal announced on Thursday. This weekend Goldman Sachs said the eurozone countries were heading for a ''mild recession'' as confidence waned.
''Given the magnitude of the crisis, it is again too little too late,'' Mr Soros said of the Brussels deal at a dinner organised by Pi Capital investor network.
''It will bring relief partly because the markets were so obsessed by the lack of leadership. The mere fact that something was achieved was a major relief and it will be good for any time from one day to three months.
''Unfortunately it is not the last crisis because the fundamental issues have not been settled. It is clear that the amount of debt that Greece has accumulated and is accumulating is untenable and the country is effectively insolvent.''
Mr Soros argued that many banks might not voluntarily join the deal as they would want to wait for the insurance offered by the credit default swaps they hold against the debt to be triggered. At present because the haircut is voluntary, European leaders have said the Greek default is not considered a ''credit event'' which would spark credit default swap payouts and possibly a new financial crisis.
''Unfortunately, the 50per cent haircut is effectively less than a 20per cent reduction in the overall debt [for Greece] because it only involves the private sector and excludes all the debt that is held by the ECB [European Central Bank] and the other public authorities and also the debt held by Greece because the banks, of course, will now be insolvent and the pension funds also,'' Mr Soros said.
''It is not at all clear that the private sector will actually deliver this voluntary cut because many of the banks are hedged by holding credit default swaps and this doesn't trigger the credit default swaps. As a private institution you could argue that it is the fiduciary responsibility of the board to look to the benefit of the bank rather than the common benefit.
''So, from the banks' point of view it is better to have a credit event where the CDS becomes active and protects them from the loss. That is an unsolved problem which may emerge in the next few weeks.
''The failure in terms of governance and the lack of understanding among the leadership how to deal with the market is really quite astounding.
''You have to lead markets, that is what they don't understand.''

[Onur]

I agree to you Makedonche.

I do not believe for a second that Papandreu took this decision all by himself. Greece was already always under the command of EU officials and after the crisis, they are fully under the enslavement of them. So, this is probably a plan of EU leaders, to prepare psychologically, both Greek and European public for the inevitable end. They are also gaining more time with this way.

They are just trying to share the burden of failure as you said.

[Brian]

Germans finally realize they can't trust Greece

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19495/46/

Tuesday, 01 November 2011
You'd think the Germans after 150 years of managing Greece would have learnt by now who are they dealing with, but no...

Germans expressed lightning fury and frustration at Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou's shock decision to call a referendum on the latest aid package, with some saying the gamble would push Greece out of the euro zone (this is after EU Banks wrote off 100+ Billion Euros owed to them by Athens).

"You can't help thinking that they should be grateful as Europe is trying to help," said Konstanze Pilge, a 26-year old student, walking near the Brandenburg Gate in central Berlin. "Now it looks like they are going to mess things up."

Papandreou dropped his bombshell on Monday evening, less than a week after European leaders agreed the outlines of a second bailout for Athens.

"It just goes to show once again what a massive mistake it was not to throw Greece out of the euro zone at the start," said Wolfgang Gerke, a banking professor and president of the Bavarian Financial Centre think tank.

Full article in Link.



About time they kick Greece out. The old "Veto, Veto" song is starting to sound like, "Dracma, Dracma" with a donkey farting for musicl accompaniment.

[Brian]

The end for Greece is near.

Greek Citizens putting their money in Macedonian Banks

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19478/45/

Friday, 28 October 2011

The number of Greek nationals saving their money in Macedonian banks has doubled, reports Macedonian web portal Kapital. They are attracted by alluring interest rates, which are a lot higher than the ones in Greece, and by stability of Macedonian banks.

Although many of the Greek nationals putting their money in Macedonia are ethnic Macedonians, there has been an increased number of Greeks who chose Macedonian over their local banks.

Greeks can often be seen in bank offices in Gevgelija and Bitola. The law allows them to tie EUR 10,000 a month in Macedonia. No data about the exact amount of Greek savings in Macedonia is available for the time being.

The interest of Greek citizens in saving in Macedonian banks has been confirmed to reporters of Kapital by bank offices in Bitola, Gevgelija and Strumica.