Official Greek Document- destruction of Macedonian ethnic conscious

[Six Guns]

I dispute it. If this document is considered valid then we could have a few nice laughs here. If any New Macedonians want to prove differently, then I will be looking forward to the evidence.

You only wish to anger people with your Greek brainwashed comments like this and prove what a big smart ars you are!

Feel lucky I am not an admin Turkikas!

[toothpaste]

Something also weird with it is the name of the Chief ,who sales it.

ΔΗΜΗΤΡΗΣ which is informal and not ΔΗΜΗΤΡΙΟΣ the formal/official form...this man is Chief and Lieutenant-General and sales this paper as "Jimmy".

[Traveller]

This is your first(1) and only warning Giorikas, one more time I see you refer to my people as New or something of the like you will be banned, you cannot be considered as new when you have been living in Macedonia for at least 1500 years if not always......

My friend there are negotiations for your countrys name in which YOUR GOVERMENT IS PARTICIPATING. Your goverment puts in the table the issues of the name of your language and the name of the ethnicity. Greece says we negotiate for the name and your goverment say we must settle the issues mentioned above. And let me tell you why. There will be a geographical prefix in front of Macedonia. You cant avoid that. There are many people in your inteligentsia that agree. And the vast majority of people in ROM understand that there is no future outside EU (see all the polls). Now from what is leaking the name is settled to Upper (this is the name of the Ancient Macedonia where ROM lies , the 3 kingdoms of Upper Macedonia) or North Macedonia. But the REAL PROBLEM is what your people will be called. If there is a settlement Greece wants it to be Slavomakedonians and your goverment says Macedonians. In this issue the negotiations are stuck.

[Daskalot]

My friend there are negotiations for your countrys name in which YOUR GOVERMENT IS PARTICIPATING. Your goverment puts in the table the issues of the name of your language and the name of the ethnicity. Greece says we negotiate for the name and your goverment say we must settle the issues mentioned above. And let me tell you why. There will be a geographical prefix in front of Macedonia. You cant avoid that. There are many people in your inteligentsia that agree. And the vast majority of people in ROM understand that there is no future outside EU (see all the polls). Now from what is leaking the name is settled to Upper (this is the name of the Ancient Macedonia where ROM lies , the 3 kingdoms of Upper Macedonia) or North Macedonia. But the REAL PROBLEM is what your people will be called. If there is a settlement Greece wants it to be Slavomakedonians and your goverment says Macedonians. In this issue the negotiations are stuck.

You are stupid, we are not the government, we chose our own name. That is something YOU never will change.

I will give you your first(1) and only warning Traveller, next will be a BAN for denying the existence of the Macedonian ethnos and spreading Greek propaganda, chose your words very carefully in the future if you would like to participate in this forum.

[Jankovska]

My friend there are negotiations for your countrys name in which YOUR GOVERMENT IS PARTICIPATING. Your goverment puts in the table the issues of the name of your language and the name of the ethnicity. Greece says we negotiate for the name and your goverment say we must settle the issues mentioned above. And let me tell you why. There will be a geographical prefix in front of Macedonia. You cant avoid that. There are many people in your inteligentsia that agree. And the vast majority of people in ROM understand that there is no future outside EU (see all the polls). Now from what is leaking the name is settled to Upper (this is the name of the Ancient Macedonia where ROM lies , the 3 kingdoms of Upper Macedonia) or North Macedonia. But the REAL PROBLEM is what your people will be called. If there is a settlement Greece wants it to be Slavomakedonians and your goverment says Macedonians. In this issue the negotiations are stuck.

And I say screw you and all the Greeks who think like you.

[Pelister]

My friend there are negotiations for your countrys name in which YOUR GOVERMENT IS PARTICIPATING. Your goverment puts in the table the issues of the name of your language and the name of the ethnicity. Greece says we negotiate for the name and your goverment say we must settle the issues mentioned above. And let me tell you why. There will be a geographical prefix in front of Macedonia. You cant avoid that. There are many people in your inteligentsia that agree. And the vast majority of people in ROM understand that there is no future outside EU (see all the polls). Now from what is leaking the name is settled to Upper (this is the name of the Ancient Macedonia where ROM lies , the 3 kingdoms of Upper Macedonia) or North Macedonia. But the REAL PROBLEM is what your people will be called. If there is a settlement Greece wants it to be Slavomakedonians and your goverment says Macedonians. In this issue the negotiations are stuck.

Behind the negotiations, is Greece's denial of the rights of Macedonians.

Thankfully, the Macedonian government has had the guts to do something about it.

It may well be that the Macedonian government is prepared to compromise on the name again, but only on the condition that Greece unequivically recognizes the Macedonian langauge and culture.

For a long time the Macedonian government was silent about their rights, and for a long time, this gave Greece an enormous advantage in their war against the Macedonians.

In some ways the "negotiations" have given the Greek lie some measure of legitimacy. (Many people don't see it, but I do)

The lie began by accident really. The Greeks never thought Macedonia really belonged to them, but they put together some kind of case and presented it to Britain at that time (as did Bulgaria and Serbia), which was really a precursor to its invasion, and occupation. Secretly, the Bulgarians and Serbians made numerous references to The Macedonians. The Greeks (Bulgarians and Serbians too) have been trying to legitimize, in historical terms, a claim to Macedonia since then. But, if you look at the case made by the Greeks in those days, it was all about the "Greekness" of the ancient Macedonians. This position has changed. The Hellenization of the region has given the Greek government the courage to declare all Greeks there as Greeks "and" Macedonians, only now. They've given them a kind of dual identity. They couldn't do this in 1913, they couldn't do it in 1945, because there were very few Greeks there. So, from a historical point of view, modern Greeks have a very brief and a very Modern presence in historical Macedonia.

[toothpaste]

Behind the negotiations, is Greece's denial of the rights of Macedonians.

Thankfully, the Macedonian government has had the guts to do something about it.

It may well be that the Macedonian government is prepared to compromise on the name again, but only on the condition that Greece unequivically recognizes the Macedonian langauge and culture.

For a long time the Macedonian government was silent about their rights, and for a long time, this gave Greece an enormous advantage in their war against the Macedonians.

In some ways the "negotiations" have given the Greek lie some measure of legitimacy. (Many people don't see it, but I do)

The lie began by accident really. The Greeks never thought Macedonia really belonged to them, but they put together some kind of case and presented it to Britain at that time (as did Bulgaria and Serbia), which was really a precursor to its invasion, and occupation. Secretly, the Bulgarians and Serbians made numerous references to The Macedonians. The Greeks (Bulgarians and Serbians too) have been trying to legitimize, in historical terms, a claim to Macedonia since then. But, if you look at the case made by the Greeks in those days, it was all about the "Greekness" of the ancient Macedonians. This position has changed. The Hellenization of the region has given the Greek government the courage to declare all Greeks there as Greeks "and" Macedonians, only now. They've given them a kind of dual identity. They couldn't do this in 1913, they couldn't do it in 1945, because there were very few Greeks there. So, from a historical point of view, modern Greeks have a very brief and a very Modern presence in historical Macedonia.

In 1945 there were few Greeks in Macedonia??
Even in 1913??

And what is this "dual identity" fantasy ? There were Thessalians, Peloponneseanes ,Islanders, Cretans..."and" Greeks.
Is this a "dual identity" again??

You cannot understand this simple thing,cause u use "Macedonians" as a ethnical definition...Greeks use it as Geographical -as it was used exclusively the past 1800-2000 years.

So...where is the Macedonian minority in Greece?
Is father Tsarknias and his 30 believers in Aridaia?
Is it Vinozito ,with the 2.000 votes ,and 5% maximum percentage in Florina district?
Where are they on the internet? 2 videos of 1999 on youtube with some ppl dancing in a fest?
I lived whole my life in Greek Macedonia,and i never,ever met someone claiming to be ethnic Macedonian-I met douzins of thousands Greeks though...
Maybe its a coincidence..or bad luck..or they afraid of me...or its an aliens' conspiracy..

[toothpaste]

The lie began by accident really. The Greeks never thought Macedonia really belonged to them....

You are a kind of true at that point.

In fact Bulgarian government failed to occupy the greatest party of Macedonia ,given by the Russians with San Stefano treaty -1878,but canceled in Berlin.
After that changed slightly its politic for the matter,promoting an autonomous or even independent Macedonia (Macedonia for the Macedonians etc) calling all christians against the Ottomans.

This plan worked perfectly in Eastern Rumelia the same period (autonomous 1878,then taken by Bulgaria (1885))

The following years ,after the multiple defeats of Bulgarians by the Greeks (1904-8 ,1913 ,1917) as well as the maltreatment of the local population by the Bulgarian army and governments ...the thing went out of control of Sofia.

It was like Frankestein and his monster.

The autonomy and independence plan became a boomerang..since Macedonians gradually developed a unique identity,formed their language (one of the several dialects) ,and finally a separate national self definition.
This process is still in progress.

[Delodephius]

You're a paťilo.

[Risto the Great]

You are a kind of true at that point.

In fact Bulgarian government failed to occupy the greatest party of Macedonia ,given by the Russians with San Stefano treaty -1878,but canceled in Berlin.
After that changed slightly its politic for the matter,promoting an autonomous or even independent Macedonia (Macedonia for the Macedonians etc) calling all christians against the Ottomans.

This plan worked perfectly in Eastern Rumelia the same period (autonomous 1878,then taken by Bulgaria (1885))

The following years ,after the multiple defeats of Bulgarians by the Greeks (1904-8 ,1913 ,1917) as well as the maltreatment of the local population by the Bulgarian army and governments ...the thing went out of control of Sofia.

It was like Frankestein and his monster.

The autonomy and independence plan became a boomerang..since Macedonians gradually developed a unique identity,formed their language (one of the several dialects) ,and finally a separate national self definition.
This process is still in progress.

Hang on. You say the Bulgarians failed to occupy their newly acquired lands.
Surely this was not a problem as the typical Greek lie is that Macedonians were Bulgarians. So, under your stupid (previous) assumptions, there would have been no need to occupy the lands.

Have you changed your mind now?

This unique identity you refer to. How unique as compared to say the modern Greeks with what the same people were 150 years ago? Modern Greece should thank the Romanian offspring of the Phanariotes that created their identity. And then send a few flowers to Russia for their help as well.

I therefore ask you, what made Greece a nation 180 years ago? And why was it convenient for it to be allowed.

[toothpaste]

Hang on. You say the Bulgarians failed to occupy their newly acquired lands.
Surely this was not a problem as the typical Greek lie is that Macedonians were Bulgarians. So, under your stupid (previous) assumptions, there would have been no need to occupy the lands.

There were living Greeks too in these lands.
U can name it "add" ,"conquer" or "liberate". Its up to u.

I therefore ask you, what made Greece a nation 180 years ago? And why was it convenient for it to be allowed.

The common enemy.
Always the Turks..for some time the Bulgarians.

Its the same for you too.
You need the Greeks as enemies to form your national identity.

[Daskalot]

There were living Greeks too in these lands.
U can name it "add" ,"conquer" or "liberate". Its up to u.



The common enemy.
Always the Turks..for some time the Bulgarians.

Its the same for you too.
You need the Greeks as enemies to form your national identity.

The Turks were not the enemies when Karavangelis blessed the cannons of the Turks before they unleashed hell on the native Macedonians. Pavlos Melas was also a notorious Turk collaborator.

[El Bre]

Toothpaste, can I ask what village your fathers family is from in Eastern Macedonia? If not, I understand.

[toothpaste]

The Turks were not the enemies when Karavangelis blessed the cannons of the Turks before they unleashed hell on the native Macedonians. Pavlos Melas was also a notorious Turk collaborator.

I m really not sure about who was friend of the Turks in early 1900's.
(After all Greeks fought with Turks in 1897 and 1912-that's a fact ,not rumors .)

In 2008 though things are far from obvious...

[Neznamides]

Toothpaste, What on earth are you insinuating?