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  • DraganOfStip
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 1253

    Another proof that this country is going to hell are yesterday's elections for rector and student's president of the University of Saints Cyril and Methodius.
    Once again politics is involved where it doesn't belong - intimidation,election fraud,stolen ballot boxes,even intervention of the police.We can't seem to shake off the long arms of the politicians from any aspect of people's lives here.Nothing can be achieved without a party membership or/and bribe.
    Terrible scenes from the events at the university yesterday,just as a reminder that we are still locked deeply in the stone age whilst the entire world goes forward:

    По неколку обиди да заминат од просториите на СПУКМ претставниците од Студентскиот парламент конечно успејаа да избегаат од задниот влез на зградата во која е сместен парламентот некаде по 2 часот по полноќ, објави А1он .
    ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
    ― George Orwell

    Comment

    • vicsinad
      Senior Member
      • May 2011
      • 2337

      Dragan:

      It's pretty clear that a majority of Macedonians will likely vote for DPMNE again. I see that there are still a lot citizens protesting the government. While it's necessary, it's very unlikely that the government will cave in to protesters or that people will change their vote because they see a bunch of young people (many wrongly or rightly accused of being affiliated and controlled by SDSM) yelling at the government.

      My question to you is this: Do you gather any sense of the citizen movements using something other than government protests to get people away from the two current parties? As in some sort of outreach initiative that doesn't involve protesting?

      Comment

      • DraganOfStip
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2011
        • 1253

        Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
        Dragan:

        It's pretty clear that a majority of Macedonians will likely vote for DPMNE again. I see that there are still a lot citizens protesting the government. While it's necessary, it's very unlikely that the government will cave in to protesters or that people will change their vote because they see a bunch of young people (many wrongly or rightly accused of being affiliated and controlled by SDSM) yelling at the government.
        The thing that keeps DPMNE in power is the patronage system.Every public services employee is a member,and each member employed by the party is required to bring additional 3-4 votes for it from family members.That is what is expected from him/her in return of the employment,and the person in question knows this and complies without questions asked.This was shown the most in the counterprotests,the so-called GDOM movement is nothing but an association formed by DPMNE (and coalition parties') members and sympathizers who obtained employment through the party.They summon them via text messages (i have posted some of them here),relieve them from work and put in buses like cattle so that they could be caught on camera and presented to the public as genuine random supporters of Grujo.When I was protesting in Stip i could see on their faces that they're not glad to be there (except some hardcore party officials that got the highest-paid jobs in the queue),they were looking down and couldn't wait the counterprotest to finish so that they could go home.They're nothing but obedient servants to the party.DPMNE have perfected the patronage system so well that they can issue the "Patronage for dummies" manual in a heartbeat.That,supported by the propaganda machinery in the media,makes it unlikely they will be removed from power any time soon,unless something drastic and extreme happens.
        My question to you is this: Do you gather any sense of the citizen movements using something other than government protests to get people away from the two current parties? As in some sort of outreach initiative that doesn't involve protesting?
        I'm not sure I understand your question,what do you mean by "something other than protests"?
        Are you implying forms of civil disobedience,riots,maybe even a civil coup d'etat?
        Last edited by DraganOfStip; 07-02-2016, 06:00 AM.
        ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
        ― George Orwell

        Comment

        • vicsinad
          Senior Member
          • May 2011
          • 2337

          Thanks for that answer, Dragan.

          No, I don't mean riots or a coup d'etat. Those are actions directed against the government usually. I mean something that is directed toward the citizen. I think protests, coup d'etat attempts, and riots will only strengthen DPMNE's hold on its majority of voters, if we can't call them followers per se. Plus, those actions will likely create deeper divisions in society and government.

          For example, are groups going from "house to house" and educating or having conversations with people on the corruption of both parties? Are towns/villages -- or concerned citizens within the towns -- holding town-wide meetings on these current issues? Basically, is there a system of organization or activities in place that are NOT aimed directly at the government. Activities and outreach that truly care and want this to be about the people, and that will win over peoples' minds and hearts.

          Comment

          • DraganOfStip
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2011
            • 1253

            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
            For example, are groups going from "house to house" and educating or having conversations with people on the corruption of both parties? Are towns/villages -- or concerned citizens within the towns -- holding town-wide meetings on these current issues? Basically, is there a system of organization or activities in place that are NOT aimed directly at the government. Activities and outreach that truly care and want this to be about the people, and that will win over peoples' minds and hearts.
            Ok,I think I see what you're getting at.
            No,I haven't heard of anything like that.If there IS something like that,it usually doesn't get a lot of attention from ordinary people because they're either politically deeply polarized (sympathetic to either SDSM or DPMNE so by default they wouldn't be interested in the event simply because it's against the party they simpathize),or they have given up entirely and are looking for a way out of this country.It's the people's mindset that is the real problem.Supporters of each party are deeply convinced in their beliefs that are blind to the most obvious wrongdoings of the party they support.You can't prove anything to these people since they have already made up their minds.
            I sum up everything I see is going on here and every time I end up with the inevitable conclusion that this country is going to hell.It's like that maze game you have in newspapers,except every road you take leads you to the same place.
            ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
            ― George Orwell

            Comment

            • DraganOfStip
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2011
              • 1253

              Two sanctions on Macedonia in the same day

              The European Commission sanctions Macedonia by suspending 27 million euros aid funds for 2016,due to "lack of will and reforms by the authorities":
              Европската комисија ја скрати помошта за Македонија за 2016 година и одлучи да не продолжува со нови проекти затоа што […]


              On the same day,the International Monetary Fund decided to withdraw it's representative in Macedonia once the mandate expires in August:
              ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
              ― George Orwell

              Comment

              • DraganOfStip
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2011
                • 1253

                According to the National Bank of the Republic of Macedonia (NBRM), as of March 2016 Macedonia's foreign debt reached 6,7 billion euros,which is 70,1% of it's GDP.
                It is an increase of 353 million euros in just 3 months,placing the country in the group of High-Debt countries.
                Moreover,the country's internal debt is nearly 2 billion euros (additional debt of 5,4 million euros will be added tomorrow as the government announced this morning that it will be borrowing from domestic creditors).
                How much will the balloon be able to inflate before it explodes?


                ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                ― George Orwell

                Comment

                • Tomche Makedonche
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2011
                  • 1123



                  Micov: Macedonian leadership doesn't know the meaning of Statehood

                  Tuesday, 05 July 2016

                  Popular historian and author Stefan Vlahov Micov pulled no punches in his latest editorial, analyzing the political situation in Macedonia and the inept leadership who according to Micov still hasn't figured out the meaning of statehood.

                  We have seen divisions among Macedonians three times now: during and after the Ilinden uprising in 1903, after WW2 and after our independence in 1991, says Micov.
                  In each case, Micov explains, these divisions were not accidental, and the primary blame for it goes to the Macedonian leadership for distancing themselves from the people, and creating an even bigger gap with the public by subjugating themselves to foreign interests.
                  The typical Macedonian wants a direct democracy, and such type of democracy does not accept a leadership caste, something that we have since 1991.

                  The Macedonian identity is much older than our actual statehood. As such, a Macedonian does not want a country in which they will be subjugated. A Macedonian accepts collaboration with a leader who will defend their interests - explains Micov.

                  Diametrically opposite to the people, the politicians understand the country as an institution through which they will rule the people. Here lies the problem: first, our politicians are clueless about statehood, second they are not interested in what the people want and expect, third they never understand the historical contexts in decisions that are being made.
                  Perfect example, explains Micov is the fact Macedonian leadership opposed becoming part of Yugoslavia after WW2.

                  Despite the fact Serbs and Croats are far greater nationalists than Macedonians, both the Croats and Serbs saw the business and geo strategic benefits of joining into one country. Yet it was our leadership who wanted an independent Macedonia.

                  In 1991 just the opposite happened. The Croats and Slovenes announced they were leaving Yugoslavia. It was our leadership who suddenly became obsessed with Yugo-nostalgia and were against Macedonian independence even though 98% of the population voted for independence. Our politicians showed they were completely out of touch with the population - says Micov.

                  Today, yet again we're seeing the same clueless leadership in Macedonia. The UK voted to leave the EU; Austria, Hungary, Italy are just to name the few who are planning to join the exit train next. Once again our 'geniuses' publicly state Macedonia has no option except for the EU! What happens if everyone leaves, what would our leadership say next? We are also begging NATO to accept us in, so our sons can become cannon fodder for the next war NATO (US.) plans on waging.

                  Another proof that our politicians are clueless is the fact they are trying to lead the country as a political party.
                  In communist times, the sole party never posted a recruitment drive publicly, instead the party itself would attempt to recruit you if they felt you're of certain quality. Their selection criteria was quite strict, only the 'elite' were members of the communist party, says Micov.

                  Since 1990, we have few party-states who are ruling the country in the same fashion they are ruling their party. Each party is authoritarian, dependent on foreign factors and their most important task is to sign up as many members as they can. There isn't a selection criteria, rather it's just numbers. Macedonians are divided on these party-states who are changing our state and national interests for their party interests- explains Micov.

                  Today we have VMRO-DPMNE and SDSM, both are diametrically opposed, yet both have one thing in common, both are controlled by and subservient to foreign interests.

                  All Macedonian politicians have bent their spines so much, they can no longer be recognized as bi-pedal creatures, yet they all continue to blame each other for 'spine-bending', says Micov.
                  For over two decades our leadership is involved in name negotiations with Greece. There is blame game going around as to who sold the name, yet no one has put an end to this ridiculous and meaningless negotiations. If we are saying no one can tell us what our name should be, then why are we seating at the same table with Greece?

                  If Macedonian Court officials are constantly complaining they are being blackmailed and pressured by the American hyena and Ambassador Jess Bailey, then why are these judges continuing to welcome Bailey in their offices?

                  Ivanov stated he will boycott the NATO Summit in Warsaw, yet the Summit is attended by the always delusional FM Poposki and PM Dimitriev. What sort of boycott is this?
                  Ivanov publicly and somewhat shockingly stated in a national address that DUI and SDSM are working (for the US) to destabilize Macedonia, yet here is Ivanov visiting Bailey at the US Embassy for 4th of July!
                  The Macedonian Government spent two years complainig about the US initiated coup assisted by the UK and Germany. Yet, our 'geniuses' are sitting on the same table negotiating their own demise and the fall of our democracy with the domestic and foreign officials who are behind the coup.

                  We're mocking Serbia who currently seats on two chairs - with Russia and the US, but we're too afraid to do even that. The Russian and Chinese presidents were in Belgrade. Our move was, as one might expect, the stupidest yet: Macedonia sent MP Stoiljkovic in Russia, during the United Russia Congress in which a declaration was signed in which Moscow guarantees Macedonia's sovereignty. Get this, our "courageus" Government who pumps their chest with "Country Above All" sent an MP from the Serbian minority party (has 1 MP in Parliament) to meet with Putin and Medvedev to sign a guarantee for our sovereignty!

                  An ethnic Macedonian political party does not have the courage to seek a guarantee for our territorial integrity. According to Micov, how could they seek such guarantee when they are the ones selling our national interests, sovereignty and integrity.

                  According to Micov, the solution is an end to the useless political elite or the end of the country. Lenin once said the people don't wish to live this way anymore, and the elite does not know to rule in new ways.
                  The arrival of putschist Nuland, or the German hochstapler Haindl will result in a new Przino Agreement. This will pretty much wrap up the chapter for our political elite and will negate whatever good they did in the past. It's the end what people remember, not the begining - concludes Micov.
                  “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                  Comment

                  • DraganOfStip
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2011
                    • 1253

                    The EC continues it's sanctions on Macedonia

                    Another 69 million euros from the IPA funds are suspended by the European Commission today,after 27 were suspended 2 days ago.

                    ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                    ― George Orwell

                    Comment

                    • DraganOfStip
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 1253

                      Speaking of inflating/exploding balloons,the government announced it will be issuing an eurobond of a staggering 650 million euros,bringing the country's external debt to 7,2 billion euros.
                      Online petitions against this have started and protests are also announced against the continuation of debts.

                      Last edited by DraganOfStip; 07-12-2016, 01:58 AM.
                      ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                      ― George Orwell

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15658

                        Seriously, what is the money for? What a pathetic country. It seems to be screaming at the world that it doesn't deserve to exist.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • DraganOfStip
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 1253

                          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                          Seriously, what is the money for?
                          I guess it is to cover all the money that they put in their pockets,the fees to their propaganda loudspeakers,to cover the salaries of the public employees who's number doubled since they came in power,and to cover the pensions that they increased on several occasions in order to get votes from the elderly while all experts warned that the pension system can't sustain such pressure and would collapse.
                          But that's just me.
                          Last edited by DraganOfStip; 07-12-2016, 04:00 AM.
                          ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                          ― George Orwell

                          Comment

                          • DraganOfStip
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2011
                            • 1253

                            Where do Macedonian politicians go on summer holiday ?

                            DPMNE stated that Grujo will go on his holiday in Turkey;
                            SDSM stated that Zajko already returned from his holiday in Greece;
                            Acting Prime Minister Emil Dimitriev will go to Montenegro,while health minister Nikola Todorov will also visit Greece;
                            DUI stated that Ali Ahmeti won't be on holiday due to his mother's death the other day,while the only politician that will spend his summer holiday in Macedonia is president Ivanov,though he will be using the Presidential Villa at Biljana Springs.

                            What happened to the "spend your holidays in Macedonia,support local tourism for the benefit of all of us" campaign ?
                            Empty talk for scoring political points I guess...

                            ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                            ― George Orwell

                            Comment

                            • DraganOfStip
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 1253

                              state administration employees tripled since 2006

                              In 2006 Macedonia had 65 000 state administration employees.
                              In 2015 their number was 185 000, a 300% increase:


                              Anyone still wonder where Grujo gets the 350 000 - 400 000 votes on the elections from?
                              Just a hint, from Wikipedia the free encyclopedia:
                              Clientelism is the exchange of goods and services for political support, often involving an implicit or explicit quid-pro-quo.[1] It is a political system at the heart of which is an asymmetric relationship between groups of political actors described as patrons and clients and political parties. Richard Graham has defined clientelism as a set of actions based on the principle take there, give here, with the practice allowing both clients and patrons to gain advantage from the other's support. Moreover, clientelism is typified by "exchange systems where voters trade political support for various outputs of the public decision-making process
                              ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                              ― George Orwell

                              Comment

                              • vicsinad
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2011
                                • 2337

                                Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post

                                Anyone still wonder where Grujo gets the 350 000 - 400 000 votes on the elections from?
                                I knew it wasn't just from Pustec!

                                Comment

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