Macedonia & Paganisam

[Jankovska]

We all know Macedonia became Christian after the visit of St Paul....

However as the rest, Macedonians were pagan before Christianity.But what strikes me the most about it is that Macedonians are still extremely pagan something that is a very unique characteristic for the Macedonian people at present time. This are rituals, believes, superstition that have been passed on form generation to generation and some are extremely unique for the Macedonian people only. Correct me if I am wrong but I haven't done a lot of investigating in this area.
You all have noticed that Macedonians to present still celebrate certain days, they don't work in the fields on others, they do certain rituals that have nothing to do with Christianity but it's still such a common practice that one starts wondering where it all comes from and how old is it, could it be older than Christianity? And if it is wouldn't this be an area where one needs to study it more to identify certain group of people?
I'll give few examples that I have heard from my grandmother that were passed onto her form here grandmother and so on.

Celebration of the Sun or for Sun, a holy day that is still very common among old people where rituals are done on a certain day in spring so that there is Sun in the summer. Basically what they do is a group of women get together at middnight and go around the village with some spring flowers blessing fields, trees etc and whispering words as a worship prayer to the Sun.

Than they have another one for rain which I have done in the village when I was little. Again women take this certain herbs and put them in a 'kotle' and they go around with 'nane' and spray every house praying for rain (can't remember the words, I was very little). I do remember though only women and young girls could go but only if they were a first born.

Than you have the days for Earth, Fire etc.

Another one which is symbolic is for Snakes, or from snakes. Again there is this tree, you need to break a branch and you make it into a circle together with a red cotton and than through the circle you need to go and look around the animals, the house so that snakes do not come near them.

Than you have 'Luda Sreda' one Wednesday in the year where no one works or does anything in the fields or hard work at home. This is one that is taken very seriously because the belief is that thunder or fire will destroy your home and family.

Another one I remember is a one where girls should not be working any house work due to having painful period and child birth.

Also when building a house in the 'temeli' you always sacrifice an animal, sheep or goat, it's believed that blood is the strongest thing that can connect you to the land as well as it represents blood family.

When children are born on the third night older women go to visit the mother and child and in the night they clean the house and wait for the 'narecnici' to come and bless the child to be strong healthy and beautiful. There is a lot of different rituals around child birth. The cradle should not be facing west, light must be on for 40 days and the most important the mother and the child must not leave the house till the 40th day. Actually on the 39th day in the night the mother takes the child out of the house to her mothers house and her mother has different herbs, flowers and other things that she does this ritual with to bless the child in the outside world.
Also until the child takes it's first steps it's clothes must never stay outside to dry after sunset, they have to be taken in before.
When the child takes it's first steps the mother must make a 'blaga pogacha' and call all the children in the neighborhood to have some and they must run up and down the road ten times.
Others are you should never cut your nails or hair at night, and you should never leave your last peace of bread, that is your luck and you must always eat it.

There is a zillion of this still part of the Macedonian people's lifes and most definitively an area where alot of study can be done.

[Pelister]

Its really interesting.

There is so much more that can be learned about the Macedonians. I find their superstitions really interesting.

I know for a fact that many Macedonian traditions were banned by the Yugoslav government after 1945, because they were thought to have been too dangerous.

There is a place near Prilep where Macedonians used to (pre WWII) practice strange fertility rites, using snakes. This kind of practice is straight out of the book of Dionysis and ancient Thracian fertility rites, and yet know one else has them, or does them - not the Albanians or the Greeks or the Serbs or the Tartars.

[Jankovska]

In Yugoslavia many things were forbidden. I think it needs to be recorded now because it will be lost. We can only record all this from older people, grandparents mostly, coz the parent grew up in Yugoslavia and don't know much at all. Our generations and the younger ones know nothing and it will be a true shame for all this to be lost. I think it can be a strong evidence to identify a group of people that is different from other groups.
The Slavic thing is already weak in a sense that all the Slavic spoken people have been and are different in their beliefs, rituals before Christianity. Macedonian culture and tradition is still standing very strong in this sense and it must be recorded and stored for generation to come.
Everytime I ask my grandmother where does it come from she always replays, who knows, ostanalo od pamtivek ( it's since beginning of time.)

[Psolunski]

My grandmother used to give me lollies.

[Jankovska]

My grandmother used to give me lollies.

Exactly my point.

[goce]

Its really interesting.

There is so much more that can be learned about the Macedonians. I find their superstitions really interesting.

I know for a fact that many Macedonian traditions were banned by the Yugoslav government after 1945, because they were thought to have been too dangerous.

There is a place near Prilep where Macedonians used to (pre WWII) practice strange fertility rites, using snakes. This kind of practice is straight out of the book of Dionysis and ancient Thracian fertility rites, and yet know one else has them, or does them - not the Albanians or the Greeks or the Serbs or the Tartars.

Care to elaborate more? This is a very interesting thread Jankovska, thank you!

[Risto the Great]

When I was building my house. My Grandparents (Bog da gi prosti) came to my footings and threw coins in them and walked around the place clearing bad spirits out of the footings with a branch of leaves. Not very Christian-like, but I haven't had any bad-luck yet.

[malenka]

I know of few too.

On Lazarova Sabota, sometime before Easter people put young willow brunches over the entrance of their houses, I don't know why butI guess it must have something to do with the bending agility or fast growing of this tree to give prosperity to the family members.

Then we have the spilling water ritual when sending someone off to the army, before a major test, travel journey and such, believing that by doing this you bless them that wathever dificulty they meet they will get trough ok, the whole job done as easy as it is for water running.

Make few steps backwards and then continue on if a black cat run in front of you and crosses your road.

If you meet people going to funeral and see the casket you should seek a button on your clothing and hold it. Don't ask why, I don't know.

Bad weather, you see hailstorm aproaching, to break the cloud and save the garden goods a first born needs to make forward flip three times in the direction that you want the cloud to split. Never mind firing rockets, this is believed to do the trick. Failing that, if the hail start to fall the same first born picks up the first piece of hail that is available and puts it in the mouth.

Wearing your underwear inside out, to protect you from evil eyes.

One which just the kids do, so who told them I don't know, but thinking about it I laugh now because I did it too. If you see a squashed frog on the road, hold a piece of your hair and say 'pu pu pu kosata da ne mi okape', the believe is you protect yourself from hairloss

[Rogi]

Pull your hear and/or spit three times at the sight of a dead animal.

In fact, there are a lot of things in our culture that include spitting three times and I remember a discussion about this being a potential pagan custom which was kept and evolved during the time of Christianity and I think it's only kept in Orthdoxy (i.e. at a christening, the Godfather spits three times over the baby, etc).

Actually, come to think of it, spitting three times is also something the Jews do - but It seems to have origins from Christianity.

Also, the Scottish have something similar with spitting to ward of bad or evil.

[Coolski]

As a kid when walking through a park at night with my dedo and baba, bog da ja prosti, they would spit under trees in a very short and sharp way. I never knew why.

Every year on the first day of school we had to kick a glass of water over whilst passing through the front door, and then walk over that water starting with our right foot.

The same goes for travelling or anything where good luck is required over a longer period of time.

Oh, and the tradition of the temeli and the sacraficial blood is not lost in the diaspora. One of my tetki remembers everything and upholds these rituals.

This is a great thread. We have discussed it before, and we have always concluded that we need to write a book or make some recordings but nothing ever happens.

What is a good way to turn these discussions into something more substantial?

[Risto the Great]

What is a good way to turn these discussions into something more substantial?

We will be configuring a Wiki on this forum soon. This is a perfect starter IMO.

[Jankovska]

yes the glass of water thingy, forgot about that. I remembered another one, when you come back from a funeral you must leave everything outside you may be carrying with you, has to stay overnight and you need to take matches and light them and through them over your shoulders to make sure the soul of the dead person doesn't follow you in.
Yeah it would be great to record this and try and find out more. Macedonian culture is so full of this sort of beliefs that is a unique characteristic about us. Any ideas and suggestions?

[Coolski]

Risto, a wiki will be perfect for so many similar projects. Nice work guys!

[makedonin]

there are many Macedonians of XIX Century who already did the most of the job you intend to do.

reading their work is a good start.

[Rogi]

Yeah, there are books which have been written with all of these examples on this thread in them. I'm certain I had one lying around here somewhere... I think it's about time I started scanning the Macedonia books in my library and putting them on the internet. Need to find a way to find some time.