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  • Buktop
    Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 934

    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    There is no doubt about it, Meto still supports the notion of prefixa de democratica. The Adelaide clip confirms this.

    Like TajnataKniga, the (now missing) member of this forum, he said that, well, Macedonia is democratic afterall, so it's not all that bad.
    Meto provided his justification for supporting the prefix at the time it was proposed, he also states that he no longer supports this, I guess you missed it?
    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

    Never once say you walk upon your final way
    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
    Our long awaited hour will draw near
    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8531

      Originally posted by Buktop View Post
      Meto provided his justification for supporting the prefix at the time it was proposed, he also states that he no longer supports this, I guess you missed it?
      And again,

      It should NEVER have been an option. It has NEVER been and NEVER will be an option for any Australian Macedonian organisation.

      What happens the next time the wind changes directions? Will Meto go with it again? He's already flip-flopped from no name change, to pro name change to supposedly no name change again.
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Buktop
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 934

        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
        Buktop, it should NEVER have been an option. It has NEVER been and NEVER will be an option for any Australian Macedonian organisation.

        What happens the next time the wind changes directions? Will Meto go with it again? He's already flip-flopped from no name change, to pro name change to supposedly no name change again.
        He made a mistake and admitted it.

        What happens the next time? Hmm, this question seems familiar, didn't you have a go at Mitreski for asking that very question?

        The evidence we have is that they are against a name change, should the situation arise where they become pro-change, it will be addressed.
        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

        Never once say you walk upon your final way
        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
        Our long awaited hour will draw near
        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8531

          Originally posted by Buktop View Post
          He made a mistake and admitted it.

          What happens the next time? Hmm, this question seems familiar, didn't you have a go at Mitreski for asking that very question?

          The evidence we have is that they are against a name change, should the situation arise where they become pro-change, it will be addressed.
          No, the evidence we have shows they are an ideologically flawed organisation with no principled stand that can flip-flop.

          Ask Mitreski what?
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            Bringing this thread back on topic, I think we have a clear majority opinion, that the Press Release in question amounts to UMD support for the Framework Agreement.
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • Pelister
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2742

              Originally posted by aleksandrov View Post
              Do you mean the Macedonian Honorary Consul from Perth, Zoran Coseski?

              The only Ambassador we have here is the one in Canberra, Petar Stojanoski.
              Yes.

              We had some contructive and informal discussions.

              He said that he was informed by the Macedonian leaders that they will never change the name. Doesn't this statement contradict the evidence?

              But I thought there were many contradictions in all of these comments that I could not ignore, and alot of what was said simply did not make any sense.

              I was told that "we have no choice but to negotiate". My reply was ofcourse we have a choice. We have international law, and history on our side.

              Zoran defended the Interim Accord.

              My response was that why would you accept our admission to these clubs under an acronym - AT BEST. His reply was that the Macedonians "are legally bound by it". I.E, they have no choice.

              Does it preclude Macedonia from pursuing remedies at the U.N and being admitted to that organization under their constitutional name? NO.

              Whether you want to believe that it was Meto Koloski calling for a name change, or the President of UMD calling for a name change - I think we know where people in this UMD organization stand.

              At this stage I can see too many contradictions in this organization. I don't trust them yet.

              Comment

              • Pelister
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2742

                Volk,

                It might have helped you if you had actually read my post. I did ask questions.

                My first impression, as I said is that I think Meto is a conman.

                My main problem with the UMD organization is that that organization has over the years supported and defended too many anti-Macedonian institutions and structures - to be in the clear for mine.

                Now back to the meeting, UMD "said" that they are open to other ideas, and happy to express different points of view.

                I spoke to Meto briefly and he said the same thing. I believe this is a good thing. I told him I am critical of them, and he was happy to listen. So it was constructive. I appreciate and respect that.

                But I was NOT convinced for a moment that UMD has changed the policy it has had since it was founded.

                UMD and Meto have defened the current political processes since day one. They have been defending the talks, defending the E.U, pushing for our accession through these talks - and calling for a name change. Has that policy changed?

                I couldn't be so easily deflected and beguiled by the smooth and professional presentation.

                Like I said it left me feeling hopeful and good.

                Meto is a masterful speaker and he was telling me all the good that UMD were doing in our communities, but we were on different planets. I was talking to him personally about the critical issues facing ALL Macedonians, all over the world past, present and future - and he wasn't.

                We are at a stage now where a few individuals in the Macedonian government can sign away our identity forever !

                How did we get to this stage?

                Whether it was Meto personally calling for a name change, or UMD calling for a name change - I think we now where the top brass of this organization stand.

                I wasn't convinced.

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  Pelister, you are from Perth?
                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • Rogi
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2343

                    He is from Canberra, he said that in an earlier post.

                    Comment

                    • Homer MakeDonski
                      Member
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 103

                      Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                      Great that's one person not from Australia... Where are you from Bratot?

                      I am not saying it is an Australian conspiracy, but you cannot deny the fact that a majority of the anti-UMD sentiment is coming from Australia, any reasonable person can see that...
                      I would like to add
                      Thank you my Macedonians brothers from Australia for all your explanations and comments over UMD rotary policy.
                      As I understood UMD has picked up a side against Macedonian name,against Macedonians patriotism, against Macedonians ...
                      standing by next to theirs US Foreign Office Mecenas.
                      probably even more of it UMD is trying to became one of theirs tool.
                      I have a question.
                      Why Meto Koloski made a trip to visit Macedo-Australian community?
                      To let you know how much he loves you?
                      From now on..and until they came back to the Macedonian Ideology roots ..




                      -> UMD = <-
                      Last edited by Homer MakeDonski; 02-10-2010, 03:18 AM.

                      Comment

                      • aleksandrov
                        Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 558

                        Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                        American "recognition" means nothing to the average working class person in Macedonia, what means something to them is military and economic cooperation, FDI, aide. This is what is meant by "best friends".

                        Did you see the poll that TM posted where 60% of citizens don't know what the governments red line is? Or where 70% of citizens don't understand what Greece wants?

                        They don't care about international recognition, they care about quality of life.
                        Bucktop,

                        When UMD preaches that America is Macedonia's 'best friend' it always stresses the recognition of the Constitutional name. I didn't ask you about your personal opinion on whether and how the US is Macedonia's 'best friend', but why UMD chooses to engage in such preaching to the Macedonian public, especially in the diaspora, if not to influence the Macedonian people's acts or omissions? Does that amount to the UMD senselessly offending our intelligence or deceptively serving US global hegemonism at the expense of Macedonian sovereignty and effective resistance against Albanian racist separatism, occupation and ethnic cleansing of parts of Macedonia (and Kosovo)?

                        P.S. If America is truly our "best friend" in the context of military and economic cooperation, then why the scaremongering about the allegedly catastrophic consequences of not being admitted into NATO?
                        Last edited by aleksandrov; 02-10-2010, 08:43 PM.
                        All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                        https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                        Comment

                        • aleksandrov
                          Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 558

                          Given that, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of voters in this poll have understood the UMD statement in question as what it is, no UMD representative has joined in to claim otherwise, perhaps we should move forward with the question:

                          Does the UMD still hold the policy that it should encourage the Macedonian Government to continue with the implementation of the Ohrid Framework Agreement?
                          All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                          https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                          Comment

                          • aleksandrov
                            Member
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 558

                            To make my intentions clear, I should clarify that if the UMD were to now take a policy that denounces the Framework Agreement for the unjust and ultimately ruinous arrangement that it is, the organization will have my full support in that regard, and I am happy not to dwell on past errors, as long as they are not repeated.
                            All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                            https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8531

                              UMD's Opinion on the Latest EU Resolution

                              Can a member of the UMD Board of Directors please inform us of UMD's "official" opinion on the latest EU Parliamentary resolution on Macedonia adopted 10 February 2010?
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • Grotius
                                Member
                                • Dec 2009
                                • 136

                                Vangelovski - good luck with that question!!

                                I have detected some confusion about what is "official" UMD opinion and what is not so "official".

                                Comment

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