United Macedonia Diaspora - Page 98

Vangelovski · 01-10-2010, 08:25 PM

Meto,

You know very well that I didn't provide my consent to UMDs by-laws, in fact I opposed some aspects of them vigorously and was of the opinion that UMD state its position on key policy issues in the by-laws. Early 2008 is when I left the organisation. As for what you did with those by-laws, I have no idea - I left before they were finalised.

I understand that all organisations have founding members who make up the first management committee or Board of Directors, however, five years on with supposedly 4000 members, surely an election should have been held at some stage to keep UMD representative of its members, rather than have policy dictated by a handful of Board members.

"Members of good standing"? You mean cheerleaders? What about the rest of the fee paying members? Taxation without representation?

UMDiaspora.org · 01-10-2010, 08:37 PM

You did and participated in the drafting and were a Board member when the Bylaws were approved by the Board. You resigned later.

Bylaws are operational documents not policy documents. UMD's Bylaws state UMD's positions and mission statement which are on the UMD website as well, and have been clear since day one. UMD's positions and mission statement were in the Articles of Incorporation.

If you read Robert's Rules of Order, a member of good standing, in the case of UMD, means anyone and everyone who pays their membership dues. UMD's different membership categories can be viewed by clicking here http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaID=137419. Thus, all members are members in good standing, since they pay their membership dues. If someone was a member in 2006 and then doesn't pay their membership dues till 2011, they would not be considered a member in good standing. The elections committee would analyze this according to the Bylaws and decide whether this member will be eligible to vote.

We will end here as the topic of this discussion is not UMD Bylaws, membership, Vangelovski or anything else. Please e-mail [email protected] if you would like to inquire more about UMD's bylaws or membership.

We look forward to people's views on improving Macedonia's image.

Vangelovski · 01-10-2010, 08:40 PM

Meto,

Its very revealing that you even need to undertake such a survey. Is this how out of touch you really are with the issues facing the Macedonian people and their thoughts on these matters?

Or, is this an attempt to show that UMD listens to its members (and non-members) on policy, rather than take action to make UMD accountable to its members and representative of their views?

Vangelovski · 01-10-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org

You did and participated in the drafting and were a Board member when the Bylaws were approved by the Board. You resigned later.

Bylaws are operational documents not policy documents. UMD's Bylaws state UMD's positions and mission statement which are on the UMD website as well, and have been clear since day one. UMD's positions and mission statement were in the Articles of Incorporation.

If you read Robert's Rules of Order, a member of good standing, in the case of UMD, means anyone and everyone who pays their membership dues. UMD's different membership categories can be viewed by clicking here http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaID=137419. Thus, all members are members in good standing, since they pay their membership dues. If someone was a member in 2006 and then doesn't pay their membership dues till 2011, they would not be considered a member in good standing. The elections committee would analyze this according to the Bylaws and decide whether this member will be eligible to vote.

We will end here as the topic of this discussion is not UMD Bylaws, membership, Vangelovski or anything else. Please e-mail [email protected] if you would like to inquire more about UMD's bylaws or membership.

We look forward to people's views on improving Macedonia's image.

I certainly participated in the "discussions" about the by-laws, but I never provided my consent, particularly for the level of power you were proposing for the position of President. In fact, I think I argued for Australian UMD autonomy.

You just contradicted yourself re the by-laws and whether policy positions should be included in them. You may want to revise that.

Thank you for the clarification re "members of good standing". I agree that that is the generally accepted principle in democratic organisations.

This is not Maknews and you don't have Lubi to end discussions when its not pleasing to you.

UMDiaspora.org · 01-10-2010, 08:48 PM

Thank you Vangelovski for your questions. Per the suggestion of our Board of Directors, UMD will issue policy statements (forthcoming) yearly on issues concerning Macedonians and Macedonian communities throughout the world. Policy is developed by surveying our members, non-members, and communities; discussions; conferences; roundtables; focus groups, etc... The volunteer team working on these policy statements has been working diligently to draft these policy statements.

We will announce through our mailing list and post on our website, this Forum and other Forums, our policy statements once approved by the Board of Directors. We envision this to occur in the coming weeks.

Stay tuned...

UMDiaspora.org · 01-10-2010, 08:55 PM

MTO is separate from Maknews.com. UMD has great respect for the work of MTO, Maknews.com and other Macedonian websites and forums. UMD follows MTO and the great documents being brought to the attention of the members of MTO. UMD fully supports scholarly work.

UMD has started a topic and we would like to keep the topic to the topic. No need to go off topic.

We look forward to people's views on improving Macedonia's image. In our opinion, the work of MTO and members of MTO has definitely helped in improving Macedonia's image. The posting of these wonderful documents are excellent resources when trying to educate policymakers about Macedonia and the Macedonian cause.

Rogi · 01-10-2010, 09:07 PM

Vangelovski,

I think you might be pushing too many angles against UMD that it could become destructive rather than constructive.

I really do not see the purpose of your second post. It seems almost spiteful.

First there are attacks on UMD with demands that it declares its policies in no uncertain or disputable terms, as well as the attacks on UMD for not representing the views of the Diaspora and its' membership and being out of touch with them.

That is all good and well, in fact it is needed, and I would hope UMD's leadership take that as constructive advice and criticism.

However, now that it seems that they might be listening and heeding the advice of what is a growing number of people, and now that it seems that they might be putting in a process to clarify and declare all that you, I and others ask of them, it seems you're coming at them again for doing that.

What is the end game? Is it not to help them become what we all need, or is it something else?

Vangelovski · 01-10-2010, 09:30 PM

Rogi, we play this game over and over again. People criticise UMD and they make some token gestures. However, in all this time, UMD has never explained Meto's name change comments or retracted its support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement. What makes you think it will do so this time?

osiris · 01-10-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

This thread has been noted by UMD and brought to the attention of the Board of Directors, thanks for the discussion.

who are you again.

Struja · 01-10-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osiris

who are you again.

super hero "Batman"...

View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes	2	4.35%
No	44	95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

01-10-2010, 08:25 PM	#971
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Meto, You know very well that I didn't provide my consent to UMDs by-laws, in fact I opposed some aspects of them vigorously and was of the opinion that UMD state its position on key policy issues in the by-laws. Early 2008 is when I left the organisation. As for what you did with those by-laws, I have no idea - I left before they were finalised. I understand that all organisations have founding members who make up the first management committee or Board of Directors, however, five years on with supposedly 4000 members, surely an election should have been held at some stage to keep UMD representative of its members, rather than have policy dictated by a handful of Board members. "Members of good standing"? You mean cheerleaders? What about the rest of the fee paying members? Taxation without representation? __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-10-2010 at 08:28 PM.

01-10-2010, 08:40 PM	#973
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Meto, Its very revealing that you even need to undertake such a survey. Is this how out of touch you really are with the issues facing the Macedonian people and their thoughts on these matters? Or, is this an attempt to show that UMD listens to its members (and non-members) on policy, rather than take action to make UMD accountable to its members and representative of their views? __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

01-10-2010, 09:30 PM	#978
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Rogi, we play this game over and over again. People criticise UMD and they make some token gestures. However, in all this time, UMD has never explained Meto's name change comments or retracted its support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement. What makes you think it will do so this time? __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

01-10-2010, 08:37 PM	#972
UMDiaspora.org Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: United States, Australia, Canada Posts: 525	You did and participated in the drafting and were a Board member when the Bylaws were approved by the Board. You resigned later. Bylaws are operational documents not policy documents. UMD's Bylaws state UMD's positions and mission statement which are on the UMD website as well, and have been clear since day one. UMD's positions and mission statement were in the Articles of Incorporation. If you read Robert's Rules of Order, a member of good standing, in the case of UMD, means anyone and everyone who pays their membership dues. UMD's different membership categories can be viewed by clicking here http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaID=137419. Thus, all members are members in good standing, since they pay their membership dues. If someone was a member in 2006 and then doesn't pay their membership dues till 2011, they would not be considered a member in good standing. The elections committee would analyze this according to the Bylaws and decide whether this member will be eligible to vote. We will end here as the topic of this discussion is not UMD Bylaws, membership, Vangelovski or anything else. Please e-mail [email protected] if you would like to inquire more about UMD's bylaws or membership. We look forward to people's views on improving Macedonia's image.

01-10-2010, 08:48 PM	#975
UMDiaspora.org Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: United States, Australia, Canada Posts: 525	Thank you Vangelovski for your questions. Per the suggestion of our Board of Directors, UMD will issue policy statements (forthcoming) yearly on issues concerning Macedonians and Macedonian communities throughout the world. Policy is developed by surveying our members, non-members, and communities; discussions; conferences; roundtables; focus groups, etc... The volunteer team working on these policy statements has been working diligently to draft these policy statements. We will announce through our mailing list and post on our website, this Forum and other Forums, our policy statements once approved by the Board of Directors. We envision this to occur in the coming weeks. Stay tuned...

01-10-2010, 08:55 PM	#976
UMDiaspora.org Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: United States, Australia, Canada Posts: 525	MTO is separate from Maknews.com. UMD has great respect for the work of MTO, Maknews.com and other Macedonian websites and forums. UMD follows MTO and the great documents being brought to the attention of the members of MTO. UMD fully supports scholarly work. UMD has started a topic and we would like to keep the topic to the topic. No need to go off topic. We look forward to people's views on improving Macedonia's image. In our opinion, the work of MTO and members of MTO has definitely helped in improving Macedonia's image. The posting of these wonderful documents are excellent resources when trying to educate policymakers about Macedonia and the Macedonian cause.

01-10-2010, 09:07 PM	#977
Rogi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,343	Vangelovski, I think you might be pushing too many angles against UMD that it could become destructive rather than constructive. I really do not see the purpose of your second post. It seems almost spiteful. First there are attacks on UMD with demands that it declares its policies in no uncertain or disputable terms, as well as the attacks on UMD for not representing the views of the Diaspora and its' membership and being out of touch with them. That is all good and well, in fact it is needed, and I would hope UMD's leadership take that as constructive advice and criticism. However, now that it seems that they might be listening and heeding the advice of what is a growing number of people, and now that it seems that they might be putting in a process to clarify and declare all that you, I and others ask of them, it seems you're coming at them again for doing that. What is the end game? Is it not to help them become what we all need, or is it something else?

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