United Macedonia Diaspora

[TajnataKniga]

you should talk to dr. dusko aleksovski of the rock art institute in macedonia. according to him he found a variation of the new macedonian flag in a cave dating 6,000 years ago.

http://www.archaeomythology.org/even...rb04_bios.html

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Buktop

What connections? We see that UMD asked MPO to help collect census data, do you really see any connection between UMD and a pro-Bulgarian agenda?

Is applauding troop deployments considered pro-USA agenda? or is it considered an acknowledgment of a beneficial policy for Macedonia?

The actions of UMD are aligned with the Diaspora, or at least the ones who have made an effort to work with UMD, to help develop UMD, to support UMD. What we are arguing about is wording in a newsletter.

Risto, have you ever had the pleasure of disagreeing with Vangelovski? You can only really know a person when you have seen them at their worst, and all I can say is when he is asked to provide proof of his accusations against UMD he avoids doing so. When I asked him 2 days ago to explain to us the "secret" agenda's of UMD he could not do so.

Either he does not have proof, or maybe there are snipers posted on his street waiting to take him out if he discloses such vital information.

Buktop, I honestly believe that UMD handled the Afghanistan troop deployment announcement very poorly.

UMD and every other Macedonian representative association should under no circumstances give the impression that they're promoting American Foreign policy...you simply do not "applaud" any involvement in a foreign war and with a foreign agenda at play...

UMD have come across as total American arse kissers, with this announcement UMD look like they're putting American interests ahead of Macedonian interests...its not in the interest of any Macedonian to be getting shot at in some Middle Eastern shithole or any other place outside of Macedonia.

Why does UMD act like the cheerleader for the stupid decisions that the Macedonian Government is forced to undertake because of pressure applied by foreign governments...

UMD isn't the Macedonian Government media representative, or are they...?

This is where the confusion starts...who is UMD representing...???

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by TajnataKniga

you should talk to dr. dusko aleksovski of the rock art institute in macedonia. according to him he found a variation of the new macedonian flag in a cave dating 6,000 years ago.

http://www.archaeomythology.org/even...rb04_bios.html

TK,

Is there a photo of this? People have been noting this for years, yet noone has been able to provide a photo of this 'find'.

To me, the ventilator looks like a variation of this:

http://www.deepdarc.com/module/album...775-medium.png

and this:

http://rlv.zcache.com/ussr_red_army_...44trlf_400.jpg

[TajnataKniga]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Its ironic listening to UMD talk about human rights and quote from Martin Luther King, while waving the ventilator that was imposed on us by the very government they are supposedly struggling against, showing their clear support for the Interim Accord that, among other unjust provisions, compels Macedonia NOT to support the rights of the Macedonian minority in Greece.

the star of kutlesh is and will always be the national and ethnic symbol of macedonians. the new flag is the flag of republic of macedonia, big difference. my family comes from aegean macedonia, so the new flag of macedonia doesnt 100% represent me.

the so-called 'ventilator' was not imposed on us by grease. what was imposed on us was changing our original flag, the star of kutlesh. miroslav grcev, a macedonian, designed the 'ventilator'. he also designed a coat of arms for macedonia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ro...at_of_arms.svg

the 'ventilator' was adopted by 110 out of 115 parliament reps. the 'ventilator' won second place by the world almanac in 2002 out of ten flags.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of...c_of_Macedonia

when gruevski came to australia, did you guys have the 'ventilator'?? ya, and it was one of the biggest 'ventilator's ive seen at any macedonian event anywhere: YouTube - Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski at the Hilton in Melbourne. you traitors!!! :-) guess gruevski also supports the interim accord and doesnt support human rights in grease, yet gruevski wrote a letter to ban kimun about human rights in grease in 2008. wait if the 'ventilator' is being flown at an australian event honoring gruevski, does that mean that all macedonians at the event support the interim accord?

wait you also have the australian flag, how could you? the flag of a country who doesnt recognize the international principle of self-determination, macedonia's name.

your rational is ridiculous...you had nothing to find in that whole speech to bash so you had to pick the 'ventilator' and then assume that they support the interim accord. the speech has nothing to even do with the interim accord.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by TajnataKniga

you should talk to dr. dusko aleksovski of the rock art institute in macedonia. according to him he found a variation of the new macedonian flag in a cave dating 6,000 years ago.

http://www.archaeomythology.org/even...rb04_bios.html

Kniga...the Sun symbol isn't exclusively Macedonian, it belongs to all of humanity...it exists in every ancient culture and exists in pagan beliefs and modern organized religion...whether it was the Sun that we know during the day or the bright sparkle of a star in the night sky, whether it was the planet Venus or another celestial body...the point is that the 'greeks' tried to monopolize a universal symbol of humanity and its pagan roots as a specific 'greek' symbol...

[Vangelovski]

TK,

The Sonce would never have been changed if the Macedonian Government did not capitulate by signing the Interim Accord (which you should read - it can be found here: http://untreaty.un.org/unts/120001_144071/6/3/00004456.pdf).


As far as I'm aware, the ventilator has never been raised in any community in the state of NSW, Australia.

UMD has never spoken out against the Interim Accord or the Framework Agreement, rather, they have continually refered to them in order to substantiate their arguments, thus not only showing their support for them, but demonstrating their desire for those two agreements to gain legitimacy in the eyes of Macedonians.

[TajnataKniga]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Buktop, my 'proof' backing up my accusations of UMD support for a name change and the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement is their own words, which you have already read over and over again, yet continue to act as a cheerleader for them.

can you share with us the proof you have about UMD supporting the framework agreement? was UMD around went the framework agreement was signed or the interim accord?

[TajnataKniga]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

TK,

The Sonce would never have been changed if the Macedonian Government did not capitulate by signing the Interim Accord (which you should read).

The ventilator was not raised (and never has been) during Gruevski's visit to my community.

UMD has never spoken out against the Interim Accord or the Framework Agreement, rather, they have continually refered to them in order to substantiate their arguments, thus not only showing their support for them, but demonstrating their desire for those two agreements to gain legitimacy in the eyes of Macedonians.

you are beating around the bush...ok the macedonian government capitulated by signing the interim accord but 110 parliament people out 115 voted in favor of the flag, that means overwhelming support, by all parties in macedonia. where were the patriotic macedonians then? why didnt anyone in macedonia stand up to the macedonian government? where was the uproar?

gruevski visited your community? ya of course he did and the 'ventilator' was flown...see the flag in the youtube video.

my questions didnt focus on UMD, we're not discussing UMD and its so-called (your belief) 'support' for the interim accord and the framework agreement. what we are discussing is why the f*** did the australians have the ventilator at their event with gruevski? and also why they had the australian flag, a country that does not recognize your country macedonia.

[TajnataKniga]

go new york times! this newspaper supports macedonia it seems. i remember reading an article about how they found the name issue ridiculous

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

TK,

The Sonce would never have been changed if the Macedonian Government did not capitulate by signing the Interim Accord (which you should read - it can be found here: http://untreaty.un.org/unts/120001_144071/6/3/00004456.pdf).


As far as I'm aware, the ventilator has never been raised in any community in the state of NSW, Australia.
UMD has never spoken out against the Interim Accord or the Framework Agreement, rather, they have continually refered to them in order to substantiate their arguments, thus not only showing their support for them, but demonstrating their desire for those two agreements to gain legitimacy in the eyes of Macedonians.

I don't think its ever been used (new flag) in my community here in Victoria...

Which raises a very interesting point, I know that many organizations like the begaltsi use the Kutlesh and I imagine the vast majority of the diaspora only use the Kutlesh, so if UMD is the representative of the diaspora that THEY claim they ar,e what stops them, like everyone else in the diaspora from using the Kutlesh...?

Why does UMD fly the current flag at official engagements, they should represent the diaspora not the OFFICIAL government...surely?