United Macedonia Diaspora

[Makedonska_Kafana]

rujnovino, what causes you to go out of your way to defend the UMD shortcomings and many reckless statements ie. We guarantee to defend the Macedonian borders. Very, stupid and what the fuck does that have to do with our Macedonian diaspora? Can, you look up the word diaspora and drive that into them? Maybe, a 'name change" will help the UMD .. their own name?

I, have yet to hear ANYONE in our Macedonian diaspora defending borders including the MPO pre 1960. UMD Navy or Army?

[rujnovino]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Rujnovino,
What exactly is it that you like about the UMD - be specific.

Lots of things - I really liked their conference last year, with guests like Tsarknias and Edmond Temelko, and also business leaders. There was a great archeologist from Australia - I forget her name, D'Angelo or something. Great presentation about ancient Macedonia. I like the "global" approach. I like how the Voice publication has English and Macedonian version. I like the direct action with senators and congressmen. Like it or not, the U.S.A. throws its weight around all over the world, and as a Canadian, I don't appreciate it all the time, but it is a reality. I think they're still a new organization, and still deciding what they want to become. I'd like to see them focus more on culture and language promotion, and become active in Pirin, in Egej.

Also, which part, exactly, of MTO's definition of the cause do you not agree with? Be specific.

Nothing. The problem is the attitude from some people, which is sometimes so patriotic that it's not patriotic anymore.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by rujnovino

Lots of things - I really liked their conference last year, with guests like Tsarknias and Edmond Temelko, and also business leaders. There was a great archeologist from Australia - I forget her name, D'Angelo or something. Great presentation about ancient Macedonia. I like the "global" approach. I like how the Voice publication has English and Macedonian version. I like the direct action with senators and congressmen. Like it or not, the U.S.A. throws its weight around all over the world, and as a Canadian, I don't appreciate it all the time, but it is a reality. I think they're still a new organization, and still deciding what they want to become. I'd like to see them focus more on culture and language promotion, and become active in Pirin, in Egej.

Nothing. The problem is the attitude from some people, which is sometimes so patriotic that it's not patriotic anymore.

What about their policies do you like - the question was asked in that context! The fact that you like their love-ins and "global approach" (Whatever that means), or their magazine and their meetings with congressmen is irrelevant. What is it about their views and policies that they are spreading that you like????

Their public statements has shown nothing but support for the Framework Agreement, the Interim Accord and Albanian terrorists among others! They are not a "new" organisation. They have been around for 8 years (nearly a decade) and their backers have been around for much longer. In terms of culture and language promotion, Meto only weeks ago said that the Macedonians cannot protect their culture alone and supposedly need others to do this for them!

You cannot claim to support UMD's policies and those of the MTO - they are completely at odds!

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by rujnovino

Soldier, you are intentionally misinterpreting a statement of fact about what the government has done. The full press release is not only unequivocal about the delegation's anti-negotiation stance...........

How would you (mis)interpret the following statement:

И, додека Македонија демонстрира посветеност за учество во преговорите, Грција од друга страна, продолжува да отфрла многу предлози коишто и се претставени, а стави вето и на членството на Македонија во евроатлантските организации како НАТО и ЕУ.

Can you read Macedonian? In the red, the UMD are trying to show that Macedonia is 'good' because it has participated in the negotiations, and in the blue, they are trying to show that Greece is 'bad' because it has rejected several proposals. Is that really a favourable argument we should be using as Macedonians? That Greece rejected Macedonia as RoM-Skopje, and that Macedonia has been commited to a series of negotiations that are detrimental to the Macedonian identity?

These negotiations should never have happened in the first place. That is my starting point for this argument. Whereas the UMD are trying to look for positives in a situation riddled with internal treachery from the very beginning. Personally, I am pleased that the Greek government rejected the idiotic proposals put forth by those traitors in the Macedonian government. How about you, are you pleased? Or would you rather have Macedonia enter NATO and the EU by a name other than the official state name? Do you share the below view of UMD Treasurer Denis Manevski:

If the government did not agree on FYROM in 1995, we would have been 10 years behind right now. Macedonia would still be under embargo and 20,000 people would have been without a job.

Or perhaps the below:

Let me ask you this? What will you choose? People in Macedonia dying and starving or “Democratic Republic of Macedonia”?

Wow, what an ultimatum. Realism is definetly put aside. What would you choose, given your support for this organisation? Or is this where you make more excuses about apparent misinterpretations?

[Vangelovski]

SoM,

I think Manevski set realism (and reason) aside with those two statments...in fact, he set them so far aside what is generally refered to as scaremongering made its way in!

[makedonche]

Originally Posted by rujnovino

If I wanted to have a retarded conversation, I would call MakKafana or Queen Julie.

Let me know when you have something intelligent to say, Makedonche

rujnovino
I had something intelligent to say and have said it in the form of a question, that question being " UMD"s name is a misrepresentation of fact - right or wrong?
Simple question which you have managed to avoid, unlike you I don't ignore questions or bypass them or deflect them, so answer the question!
As for retarded conversations - there is no need to be a "Greek Parachutist" - it was a genuine question. And if you don't understand the Greek Parachutist analogy then it would seem to me that you are intellectually challenged and you need not answer anything - just leave the forum and stop insulting people who contribute to the forum's content.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by rujnovino

I don't feel that Meto = UMD, or that everything you accuse the guy of is somehow UMD "policy". The organization has repeatedly made it clear that they are against the name negotiations. I visited their conference last year in Toronto, and I met lots of great folks from different places, and different walks of life. It was a great experience for any Macedonian, and I would like to go again. (Not sure if I can make it this year, we'll see.) As a whole, I see the organization doing a lot of positive things, and I like what I see. Also, I say exactly the same thing for AMHRC, which produces a magazine that I like to read. Here in Canada, we have the group United Macedonians, who hold a large picnic on Ilinden every summer, that I always go to with my family. There are lots of groups, lots of events, and we have a vibrant community. I don't think it's wise to be so ethusiastic about any group's successes or be so bloody-minded about any group's shortcomings, real or imagined.

I only seem to have venom for MPO and UMD. Their actions have warranted this. Just because they wave a red & gold flag around does not mean I need to be supportive of them.

Originally Posted by rujnovino

Well, the MTO is an interesting forum, a useful source of knowledge, but some of the "principles" being espoused don't support the Macedonian Cause, in my opinion. I think there are too many hotheads, basically. Backstabbing is not a principle, and its not patriotic either.

I prefer forwardstabbing when I read rubbish like that rujnovino. The Macedonian Cause is written on this forum and is enshrined in our constitution. What do you disagree with? What does the UMetoD offer in the way of a definition of the Macedonian Cause?

Originally Posted by rujnovino

I don't want to go over all this again with you, but the original statement was "the bleakest time in Macedonian history", and then you started backtracking, talking about "...since 1991", etc., modifying your argument. Better to keep some legitimacy, Risto, than make emotional overstatements like that. Those war years are a misery you don't seem to comprehend or appreciate, they don't compare to now, and it's a flippant, stupid type of comment that I hear from some of the MTO usual suspects on a regular basis.

Rujnovino,
it is the bleakest time in Macedonia's history. This is why some people are angry about capitulations on our identity. You are not. That is fine, I am sure you are still a Macedonian. You are just not that useful at the moment. Read the Albanianisation thread to help you along the path to enlightenment. Although, if you were living in la la land, you would suggest the framework agreement was a success and helped strengthen Macedonia. Maybe you won't say that because you are not a UMetoD executive member, but the UMetoD said something to that effect. cheers buddy

Originally Posted by rujnovino

On the issue of identity, I remember growing up, saying I'm Macedonian, and having people say "what's that?" or "So, you're Greek." Honestly, I find that doesn't happen anymore, I don't know about you... we've made that transition here in Canada, I don't know about Australia. I see a lot of Macedonian pride out there these days, and I think we've made great strides in strengthening our identity as a community in the wider world since 1991.

Hey, we agree. Imagine how infuriating it is when the Diaspora has done such wonderful things for our identity only to find Macedonia's politicians signing it away for EU/NATO entry etc. in the Interim Accord ... then going to court to uphold it. Only some real monkeys would support them in these actions. Monkeys and UMD of course.

Originally Posted by rujnovino

Of course they should explore options, but you made a naive statement about Chinese foreign aid, and I though you were really grasping at straws with that. As for the so-called "acquis communataire" standards, such as a functioning legal system, I think these are all positive things that will help the Republic's economy, which is SHEEPSHIT, right now. I don't think those reforms will lead to EU membership, and that's fine with me. But the legal system in Macedonia a catastrophe. The democratic process is a catastrophe. The economy is a catastrophe. We've had one president assassinated (Trajkovski) and another attempted assassination. The Republic has a lot of growing up to do.

Naive my arse. The BRIC economies should be the targets. Did you comment on the inability to protect Macedonian industry anymore? Macedonia has already signed away that right. Think Joe Pesce/Sharon Stone/Casino.

Originally Posted by rujnovino

Who ever said "fyrom and eu/nato at any cost"? That sounds made up.

bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. You can't discuss the issues, so you make stuff up about me, it's typical warrior-queen bullshit. Say what you want about the fyRoM guy, but I never said anything like that. When you say I did, it just makes you look like the Bozo.

I agree that the Macedonian politicians are generally corrupt, and have generally failed, but I think the diaspora message is abundantly clear.

If anything, I think the message from the diaspora is clearer now than ever before. The MPO is dead, the Serbomans are very few, the influence from Belgrade is dead, tie shto trgaat p Grchko are weaker and more disorganized than before. All good things.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean, Risto? You sound like MakKafana and the Queen, now Risto. I expected more from you.

When people say stupidities about Macedonian history, and when they portray Beijing as coming to the rescue, yes, I will doubt it. It's crap, that's why.

You support the UMD.
The UMD have stated unequivocally that they support the Macedonian Government and will do their bidding. Meto said it here in Adelaide.

Here ... put your imagination cap on:

Originally Posted by UMetoD

If the Macedonian Government wants it .... we help them right ... nodding head to evoke correct response .... palms exposed to give impression of sincerity

The Macedonian Government wants the EU/NATO at any cost. You're it and you can't be polished.

[UMDiaspora.org]

UMD will honor the producer of A Name is A Name, Jason Miko, click here to learn more: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/A...id=meH6prDstFI

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org

UMD will honor the producer of A Name is A Name, Jason Miko, click here to learn more: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/A...id=meH6prDstFI

Can, we get the official position of the UMD.org.usa on this matter? Silence, is never a "voice" .
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=5539



http://makedonskakafana.com/world_ma..._diaspora.html
One people, one destiny - Macedonians

[Makedonska_Kafana]

When did the UMD change?

Well, eight years ago the UMD was formed by a handful of Macedonian “volunteers” who had a vision and got the ball rolling. As, people began to take a closer look and the interest level was high they went out to find paid members and as those numbers began to climb the UMD changed forever. What, is the major difference today?

The president of the UMD is no longer a “volunteer” but rather a person that makes a very nice US salary considering the lack of results. Much, of the membership fees go towards that salary and travel expenses plus plus.

The choice is yours to make so choose wisely - your money now matters!

Tom, feel free to add or correct the above - thanks


http://makedonskakafana.com/world_ma..._diaspora.html
One people, one destiny - Macedonians

NOTE

The ONLY reason I even post that because it's my job to keep our Macedonian diaspora well informed and educated including UMD members who don't know some of these minor details.