United Macedonia Diaspora

[Soldier of Macedon]

Do his article's constitute as gossip, or is it only when you are relaying his words they should be viewed as gospel?

You have already contradicted yourself. Why was it "suprising" to find that Jews are nice people? Are you a victim of the same stereotype you accuse others of having?

Why is it "suprising" that a Macedonian has had unpleasant experiences with other Macedonians? What is your definition of suprising? Or is it something fluid that you can mould as you see fit?

For someone who claims not to be him, you sure do support Shmuel at every turn. Are you his boyfriend? Or am I being anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews can be gay?

[Gj. Puleski]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Do his article's constitute as gossip, or is it only when you are relaying his words they should be viewed as gospel?

You have already contradicted yourself. Why was it "suprising" to find that Jews are nice people? Are you a victim of the same stereotype you accuse others of having?

Why is it "suprising" that a Macedonian has had unpleasant experiences with other Macedonians? What is your definition of suprising? Or is it something fluid that you can mould as you see fit?

For someone who claims not to be him, you sure do support Shmuel at every turn. Are you his boyfriend? Or am I being anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews can be gay?

Zdravo, SoM,

Can you imagine, I was convinced that we have already overcome the Sam Vaknin phase of our communication! What a stupid optimist! Then, out of blue, I received the awaking blow: the undecent message of yours from yesterday. OK, it is your choice and it displays your level, despite all green square decorations on your chest. And I suppose S.V. would be very flattered if he new how an influential person he was - so influential that even a mentioning of his name is enough to psychologicaly destabilize a strong community like the Macedonian Truth Forum . Any way, as for myself, I am not in the mood to give him that pleasure. That is why I will pretend as if this incident did not happened, and will try to reasonable answer your last remarks:

1-When I used the word “gossip” I was only refering Risto’s statement that Sam Vaknin is in
a position advising the Macedonian Government. It is YOUR CONSTRUCTION that with
the word “gossip” I was refering S.V.s’ ARTICLES. I did not say and did not mean that.

2-Your objections about me being “surprised” by Jankovska’s statement that Jews are nice
people is even more strange than the one about the “gossip”. When you don’t have
personal experience about something (for instance about the ethnic characteristics of the
Jewish people), then your knowledge about that something is purely theoretic and a sum
of informations collected by hearing or reading. In the case of Jews, the information I
have had (before the historic speech of Jankovska) was even poorer, because it consisted
only of stereotypes I already mentioned. It does not neccessarily mean that (as you imply)
I was victim of these stereotypes. It is not the case because, simply,
(1) I am aware that I do not have reliable information on the subject (that all I
know about Jews is a bunch of stereotypes), and (2), my basic principle is to NOT classify
people (especially ethnicities) as “good” or “bad” “by nature”, but rather as a result of
historical and social “conditioning”.

And now (according to you) the “key” question: if we assume that all above is true,
isn’t that a contradiction - the fact that I was “pleasantly surprised”
by Jankovska’s statement that Jews are nice people? Of course it is not! How comme?
Very simple. The awareness that my information about the Jews is not very reliable,
does not prevent the brain to make some expectations and presumptions about what could
be the truth. These expectations are based on what you have as information, regardless of
your consciousness that this information is not very reliable. It is the physiology of the
brain: it always has to have an idea of everything, and that idea is based on the available
information. In the case with the Jews, the ifornmation I had on disposal (the stereotypes)
was not a favorable one, and it was quite normal for me to be surprised when that what I
have heard from Jankovska was, not only different, but in extreme opposite to the
information I had on disposal and, thus, to my normal expectations. For me, the important
fact in this story is not not what kind of expectations I hed (based on the available
information, the stereotypes), but that I was POSITIVELY surprised, which is (I guess)
an attitude of a positive personality.

3-One more odd question you post is the one about me being surprprised with Jankovska’s
unpleasant experiences with other Macedonians in the diaspora. Excouse me, but I am a
Macedonian, living in Macedonia, thinking I know Macedonians – and my opinion on
Macedonians is not close to that I’v heard from Jankovska. What is even worse is that I
can not say that she is lieing. I believe her and that means that I learned from her an
UNPLEASANT NEWS about us Macedonians – and that is why it was an UNPLEA-
SANT SURPRISE for me. Can you understand this?

I don’t know if this time I was successful in my explanations on the 3 issues above,
but it is realy beyond my abilities to be more clear than this.

4-You say: “For someone who claims not to be him, you sure do support Shmuel at every
turn”. I don’t know if you have heard about the basic democratic principle that :
Everybody is innocent, until proven guilty ! And in this thread here I did still not
heared nothing else but labelings and outbursts of hate towards Vaknin. May be you know
why you hate him, and may be you have every right for that, but for me that is not enough
to “join the club”, just for the sake of being with the tribe. I am not that type person. I need
reasons and explanations. It may happen that I would even agree with your argumentation
against Vaknin, but I would first have to hear it. Till now I did not hear any concrete
accusations, just outbursts of anger. If you return a few pages back in this thread, you will
see that you are angry with me just because I call him Mr. Vaknin and because I talled you
that he is making a great contribution in the health reform process (can you deny that?)
and because I said that he is not one of the advisers of the government as you are
asserting. In one word, you are upset just because what I said I know about S.V. is not
something negative and because I did not found any reason to attack him, as you expected
I should. And so, having “all that” in mind, for you the only logical conclusion is that that
kind of “behaviour” of mine could mean that either Pulja is Vaknin himself, or is he
(guess what!) Vaknin’s boyfriend! Well, very witty, I must admit. But, having in mind the
seriousness of the discussion (and of your accusations), it is very shallow and unfair. I
admit that I expected much more from a Soldier of Macedon.

[Prolet]

President Ivanov meets with Jews of Macedonian descent

Friday, 23 October 2009

President Gjorge Ivanov met yesterday with representatives of Jews of Macedonian descent, media reports from Jerusalem.

Meeting participants stressed that the Jewish Community in Macedonia is an indispensable part of the country's society, as well as a bridge that brings together and enhances the already friendly bilateral relations.

Avi Kozma, Rabbi of the Jewish Community Macedonia, thanked President Ivanov for his visit to Israel.

"It is quite significant that the president is here in Jerusalem, the holy country, the holy city, meeting with Israeli officials and leaders of the Jewish people. This is something that mustn't be forgotten, whereas Macedonia and its leaders should continue to build relations with Israel", said Rabbi Kozma.

Construction of the Holocaust Memorial Center in Skopje is a link in the chain that ties the rich Macedonian-Jewish heritage there, which was destroyed on March 11, 1943.

"This represents a very important symbol, but the future must be further built", added the Rabbi.

Rashel Drumer Levi, who was born in Skopje and lives in Israel, says that Macedonian emigrants have double citizenship.

"We are Israelis and Macedonians. The two national are very close and similar by their traits. The most important thing is that Macedonians were one of the very few nations who showed kindness to Jews during the Holocaust. Jews in Macedonia suffered from the Bulgarian fascists, not the Macedonians", she added.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/8642/1/

[Soldier of Macedon]

Shmuel Vaknin, take note:

Jews in Macedonia suffered from the Bulgarian fascists, not the Macedonians

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Gj. Pulevski

What a stupid optimist!

Self-criticism is healthy, one step at a time brate, you'll get there.

And I suppose S.V. would be very flattered if he new how an influential person he was - so influential that even a mentioning of his name is enough to psichologicaly destabilize a strong community like the Macedonian Truth Forum .

Hehehe, you're kidding, right? The only one that is psychologically destabilised is yourself. Why don't you ask Shmuel if he found members of our forum so influental that he felt compelled to write a piece of garbage that YOU brought into this forum within the first few posts you made? The man writes lies about my people, what would you have me do, nothing? Did I not denounce anti-Semitic views on this forum? Were not my (and another administrator's) statements significant enough to warrant the display of the other side of the coin?

You come here, to our forum, with your accusations and trash articles written by that moron, and expect what, respect? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings dete, and I feel sorry for you that you condone trash articles about Macedonians written by that moron.

I don’t know if this time I was successful in my explanations on the 3 issues above, but it is realy beyond my abilities to be more clear than this.

To be "suprised" means you already had a pre-conceived notion about the Jews, hence, you were a victim of the same stereotpying. Otherwise, why the "suprise", because there are good Jewish people out there, that is your "suprise"? Stop trying to play with words, you're all over the place, if you don't know what you're on about I suggest you think before you write.

In one word, you are upset just because what I said I know about S.V. is not something negative and because I did not found any reason to attack him

He wrote a trash article about Macedonians and this forum in particular, based on the opinion of a few individuals. You posted that trash article here. The fact that you don't find the words of Vaknin as irresponsible and inflated garbage, that you turn a blind eye to the rest of what he has said against Macedonian people, that you come here and promote his garbage against the Macedonian people, says alot about you starokraec, kizni sho si i ti.

[VMRO]

Mr Shmuel Puleski, you didn't find any reason to attack him because you are him.

[Prolet]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Shmuel Vaknin, take note:

Jews in Macedonia suffered from the Bulgarian fascists, not the Macedonians

Thats right SOM,the Jews know the real story we dont need to tell them.

[XRVOL]

Originally Posted by Gj. Puleski

That is the right word! I would even be more radical: all evil comes from the destructive social sistem we all (Macedonians, Greeks, Jews ...) live in : the capitalistic sistem! That is what we (all) should fight against (or, better: for a more human society), not people against people!

I wouldn't say all evil. So i assume you are a communist?

I am glad Macedonia is establishing greater ties with Israel. It clearly has a strategy when you see that it is getting close to the US/Turkish/Israeli alliance.

[UMDiaspora.org]

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[Gj. Puleski]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

The only one that is psychologically destabilised is yourself. Why don't you ask Shmuel if he found members of our forum so influental that he felt compelled to write a piece of garbage that YOU brought into this forum within the first few posts you made? The man writes lies about my people, what would you have me do, nothing?

You come here, to our forum, with your accusations and trash articles written by that moron, and expect what, respect? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings dete, and I feel sorry for you that you condone trash articles about Macedonians written by that moron.

The most controverse event of last couple of days in Macedonia is the statement of the former president Kiro Gligorov for a greek newspaper that we Macedonians are of Slavic origin, and that we have no connection to the ancient Macedonians and the Alexandar the Great. As expected, people here are sharply devided in their reactions. Some support him, other (the majority) strongly disagree. Those who do not agree with him, they do not just disagree – they are using all possible negative words in order to disqualify and psychologically lynch the old man. I disagree with him too, but I don’t hate him and I don’t feel that I am obliged to swear or use all imaginable negative words in order to humiliate Gligorov – just because he “deared” to express an opinion which is opposite to mine. If we truly accept the basic democratic principle of the freedom of speech, than we are obliged to an elementary respect to the human rights of our opponents. And one of the elementary human rigts is the right to express your opinion without fear that you’ll be lynched with labels, disqualifications (moron, Shmuel etc.) and outbursts of hatred, instead of being demanted by arguments. In short, we should have a minimum human respect towards our opponents and even care for their dignity. When we try to win the battle by psychological means (screaming at the oponent, labeling him, humiliating, degrading and in other ways intimidating him), then it shows not only our lack of democratic culture, but also indicates personal weakness, lack of self-confidence and lack of arguments. Don’t you agree with me?