United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Mr Brandy

Vangelovski - if UMD decision making is so trivial to you why do you concern yourself with their stance? You obviously believe that what they say carries a lot of weight. I am asking you this sincerely - not just stirring it up.

Brandy,

It was a comment on the extraordinarily long and painful process that finally led to UMD calling on the Macedonian Government to “cease” the negotiations (though I’m not sure how much praise we can give them because they did reaffirm their commitment to the Interim Accord).

I don’t know of one Macedonian diaspora organisation that either supports or ever supported the name negotiations, Interim Accord or the Framework Agreement other than UMD. Perhaps you may know of some? It took the UMD Board six long and painful years (and enormous public pressure) to finally brake ranks with the Macedonian Government come around on this ONE point.

As for what UMD says, I find it quite dangerous in that they promote a vision for Macedonia that is at odds with the vision that most activists have fought for over the past century.

[Prolet]

Originally Posted by Mr Brandy

Thanks Prolet - at the UMD conference I was discussing this forum with Steve K a fellow Australian and Risto the Great came up in conversation. He only had nice things to say about Risto and his family.

Spolaj Ti Mr Brandy

He wasnt wrong what he said about Risto, what was his opinion about this forum?

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Pelister

Tom,

Where does UMD specifically reject the current negotiation process?

Affirming that it rejects attempts to change our name ...etc, is not the same thing.

There is not a word in this spiel that specifically rejects the current negotiation process.

Secondly, it does not ask the Macedonian government to disengage from the current process either. Why is that?

Also, take a look at its defence and expansion of the E.U institution, even though it rejects our identity. Note also, in paragraph 8 UMD states admission of countries "like Macedonia" ... but not by our constitutional name. The context is troubling. Support for our constitutional name, is missing in this paragraphy and others relating to E.U admission.

It is sufficiently vague and conflated. Alot of brilliant spin, but I'm afraid more of the same.

Pelister,

I was being somewhat cheeky but I don't think Meto read my entire post before he replied.

To their credit, UMD did call on the Macedonian Government to "cease negotiations", though I'm not quite sure of how they define the concept "cease".

On the other hand, they reaffirmed their commitment to the Interim Accord, basically negating their call to "cease" negotiations.

Otherwise I agree, a lot of smoke and mirrors and poorly worded ideas leaving them open to multiple interpretations - business as usual.

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Pelister

Sufficiently vague on the detail as usual. This kind of "blanket" bullshit doesn't actually do anything. There are various issues, terms, phrases and meanings that have been conflated here, which only adds confusion.

No where does this spiel specifically reject the current negotiation process. It doesn't.

Opening paragraph:

It has not specficially rejected the current negotiations process, simply "affirmed" that it is against attempts to change it. Huge difference.

There is also this:

The E.C and the E.U have repeatedly rejected our identity and our right to exist over the last 15 or more years.

Here is UMD defending the E.U INSTITUTION.

Nowwhere in these two paragraphs to they say the admission of the Republic of Macedonia, by its constitutional name ...

In fact it talks admitting countries, "like the Republic of Macedonia..."
It talks about admission "including the Republic of Macedonia..."

In the opening paragraph UMD saying it supports our constitutional name, is not an indication that it in fact does. Because it continues to support an E.U institution, and defend it, even though it rejects our identity and our right to exist.

Pelister, why in hell are you complaining about NOT using "constitutional name" when the use of that terminology is highly dubious and has been criticised since its invention by Gligorov and Crvenkovski VASSAL regime in the early 1990s, when they sold out Macedonian national interests?

[Mr Brandy]

Originally Posted by Prolet

Spolaj Ti Mr Brandy

He wasnt wrong what he said about Risto, what was his opinion about this forum?

Hi Prolet - he said that he does not spend much time on the forum but that he knew the main characters. He obviously didn't mention the part from SOM about interrupting Risto's questioning at the meeting. I only spoke with him for a few minutes and he seemed like an agreeable fellow - any more and I can't say for certain. He made a nice presentation about Adelaide wiht a slide show and brought us to speed on Macedonian life in his city. He also gave us a quick summary of this Mike Rann character and the Greek lobby in Australia.

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Pelister,

I was being somewhat cheeky but I don't think Meto read my entire post before he replied.

To their credit, UMD did call on the Macedonian Government to "cease negotiations", though I'm not quite sure of how they define the concept "cease".

On the other hand, they reaffirmed their commitment to the Interim Accord, basically negating their call to "cease" negotiations.

Otherwise I agree, a lot of smoke and mirrors and poorly worded ideas leaving them open to multiple interpretations - business as usual.

Ah, yes your right Tom.
I see it now. At the very bottom. Its almost a footnote.

RESOLVED, that UMD, reiterates its unwavering support for retention of the one and only constitutional and rightful name of the Republic of Macedonia, rejects all attempts to change or impose any other name upon the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian people, and calls upon the Macedonian government to cease the ongoing UN negotiations and to submit a resolution before the UN General Assembly and Security Council to be re-admitted to the UN under its one and only constitutional and rightful name of the Republic of Macedonia;

Considering that this is the single most critical issue facing our political destruction, why is it at the bottom ?

I'm going to take some time to think about it.

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by indigen

Pelister, why in hell are you complaining about NOT using "constitutional name" when the use of that terminology is highly dubious and has been criticised since its invention by Gligorov and Crvenkovski VASSAL regime in the early 1990s, when they sold out Macedonian national interests?

I know we have been sold out. My point was that given what UMD have said in the past about name changes, and given their support of the negotiation process in the past - support for the admission of a country "like the Republic of Macedonia' could in fact mean anything?

[Prolet]

Originally Posted by Mr Brandy

Hi Prolet - he said that he does not spend much time on the forum but that he knew the main characters. He obviously didn't mention the part from SOM about interrupting Risto's questioning at the meeting. I only spoke with him for a few minutes and he seemed like an agreeable fellow - any more and I can't say for certain. He made a nice presentation about Adelaide wiht a slide show and brought us to speed on Macedonian life in his city. He also gave us a quick summary of this Mike Rann character and the Greek lobby in Australia.

Mr Brandy, As you are already aware AMHRC are taking legal action against Mike Rann and his anti-Macedonian statements, im sure Steve gave a good picture about how the Greek Lobby works in Adelaide. They were handing out pamphlets on Greeks history in some food stores, the only problem is that our minority in South Australia is smaller then the Greek Minority so obviously they have that voting advantage over us so they are used as a tool to gain their votes.

[sf.]

Originally Posted by Mr Brandy

I highly doubt that we were sitting in a pub in Melbourne drinking a Fosters or whatever anyone would be calling me a stooge.

If you drank a Fosters in a pub in Melbourne, I'd call you worse names.

[Prolet]

sf, Believe it or not Fosters is very popular outside of Australia, they even serve it in Stari Kraj.

We could always help him out and get him to choose a VB for a hard earned thirst especially after debating here like this LOL

Mr Brandy, Just so you know not many people drink Fosters in Australia and Melbourne in general, Fosters prides itself by promoting itself outside of Australia but inside Australia not many people drink it.

In Melbourne i would say that Crown Large,Carlton Cold and VB are the most popular Aussie Beers.