United Macedonia Diaspora

[Soldier of Macedon]

...........така што треба малку и претпазливи да бидеме со такви потези. Нели имаше и пред Букурешт Премиерот постави цвеќе на гробот на Гоце Делчев и на тој гроб имало мапа на Голема Македонија. Тоа многу го искористија Грците во Америка и добија повеќе поддршка од сенаторите и конгресмените поради тоа„ , изјави Методија Колоски, претседател на Обединетата македонска дијаспора.

Another pathetic and weak statement, you should be ashamed of yourself Meto, not the Macedonians who wish to honour their fallen heroes from the past.

[Phoenix]

Just a few 'suggestions' for the good folk at UMD...and a couple of factual 'corrections' if you will...

At the Bucharest Summit in April 2008, NATO affirmed that Macedonia would become a fully fledged member of the alliance once its bilateral name dispute with Greece is resolved. Nearly two years later, Greece continues to block Macedonia's NATO membership and has extended its obstructionism to Skopje's ambitions to accede to the European Union, despite widespread support in the region and from the broader Euro-Atlantic community.

The Adriatic-3 countries--Albania, Croatia, and Macedonia--have successfully completed their Membership Action Plans, and as a result, Albania and Croatia have taken their seat at the alliance's table. It is well past time for Macedonia to join them. The United States must work with Macedonia's allies within NATO to push their accession up the agenda and pressure Greece to abide by NATO's long-standing precedent that one country does not block another's membership on a purely bilateral matter.

Adriatic Charter
http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/fs/112766.htm
Use the correct terminology, leave “Adriatic-3” and “A-3” to diplomatic shorthand and other jargon

Greek Obstructionism

Despite the fact that more than 120 countries have recognized Macedonia by its constitutional name, Greece asserts that the Republic of Macedonia gives the nation a territorial claim over Greece's northern region of the same name.[1] Under Article 10 of the North Atlantic Treaty, all decisions on NATO enlargement must be made by unanimous consent, so Greek opposition alone is enough to block Macedonia's entry to NATO. However, bilateral disputes have traditionally been resolved outside of the alliance (such as Slovenia's border dispute with Croatia) so that one member alone does not block the consensus decisions of the others.

This tactic of obstructionism by the Greek side isn’t isolated within the current dispute that Greece has with the Republic of Macedonia. It has festered at EU level against the Republic of Macedonia and it has been used previously and currently against Turkey which has then resulted in a tit-for-tat reprisal by the Turkish side against Cyprus and their ambitions to join NATO.

Greece’s actions need to be highlighted that are specific to the Republic of Macedonia and in the more general but equally frustrating examples of Greece abusing its veto right on other aspirant countries, in different Euro-Atlantic organizations but who are linked by the same concepts.

Greece undoubtedly has the upper hand, unashamedly wielding its veto power over Macedonia's accession despite a 1995 interim accord between the two nations agreeing not to do so. Instead of using its power to advance the stability of the transatlantic alliance, Greece is abusing its dominant position to advance its own narrow aims, which will invariably impact regional security.

There should also be reference to the 2003 ‘Thessaloniki Declaration’, confirming that the future of the Western Balkans lies with the European Union and by extension of this to other Euro-Atlantic structures such as NATO. Today what is ‘declared’ at a EU summit can’t be viewed in total isolation. It has to be respected in a holistic fashion and how those ‘declarations’ are inextricably linked to the policies of the UN, OSCE, Western European Union and NATO itself http://www.stabilitypact.org/reg-con...eclaration.asp

Macedonia's patience is not inexhaustible, and it continues to bear the costs of courting NATO without enjoying the full benefits of membership. It will inevitably become costlier politically for Skopje to justify the time and expense of chasing NATO accession as well as its increased commitment to NATO missions such as Kosovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Iraq. Further, Macedonia--having recently increased its troop commitment to 250--currently has more troops serving under NATO in Afghanistan than does Greece.

BiH is no longer a NATO operation. In December 2004, the EU launched a military operation EUFOR – Operation ALTHEA, following NATO’s decision to conclude its SFOR mission.
http://www.euforbih.org/eufor/index....d=13&Itemid=29

Eleven Macedonian peacekeepers perished in a helicopter crash on their way home after serving in BiH Operation ALTHEA in 2008. That’s a very high cost to pay to an organization that doesn’t respect ones right to self determination.
http://www.morm.gov.mk/morm/en/ARM/missions/althea.html

For Operation-ALTHEA, ARM provides 12 personnel. That’s greater than the contributions of Lithuania (1), Luxemburg (1), Estonia (2), Finland (4), France (4), UK (9) and is on par with Albania’s total of 13 troops. http://www.euforbih.org/eufor/index....=145&Itemid=62

We have to move away from this idea that what happens at NATO and the EU are mutually exclusive, both organizations are integral cogs of the Euro-Atlantic machinery.

Iraq was not a NATO operation
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_51977.htmon

The NATO website puts Macedonia’s troop deployment to Afghanistan at a robust 165. This figure represents a larger human contribution than the Greeks (15) but also other NATO members including Estonia (155), Latvia (155), Lithuania (155), Luxembourg (9), Portugal (105) and Slovenia (70). Macedonia’s contribution also exceeds that of some NATO partner countries including Austria (3), Ireland (7), Finland (90) and Azerbaijan (90) as well as current Adriatic Charter members Bosnia and Herzegovina (10) and Montenegro (nil)
http://www.isaf.nato.int/en/troop-co...ions/index.php

The Way Forward

The U.N.-mediated talks, supporting bilateral negotiations, should continue separately from the issue of Macedonia's accession to NATO. Therefore significant diplomatic pressure will have to be applied to Athens to overcome their opposition.

It’s not enough to blame Greece alone, NATO (through its members) has a huge moral obligation to honour its own ‘Strategic Concept’, where there seems to be an abundance of lovely ‘inclusive’ language and an overriding, almost utopian notion of’ fairness’ when clearly the truth is elsewhere.

The NATO document, ‘The Alliance’s Strategic Concept’ , approved in April 1999 in Washington is awash with references to “integration”, “accession of new members”, “common values”, “democracy”, “human rights”, “the rule of law” and even “sovereignty” but somehow these words and terms have a different meaning for the Republic of Macedonia, the “common values” of the NATO members seem to be at odds with the “human rights” and “sovereignty” of the Republic of Macedonia, thereby challenging the very concept of “democracy” leaving one to ponder who’s “rule of law” are we working to and at what cost is this “integration” to the “common values” of the Macedonian’s?
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/...ectedLocale=en

Macedonia has a number of powerful advocates within the alliance to push the issue, including Austrian Minister for European and International Affairs Michael Spindelegger, Slovenian Prime Minister Borut Pahor, and NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Significantly, the Supreme Allied Commander Europe's political advisor, Ambassador Lawrence Butler, is a former U.S. ambassador to Macedonia. And American leadership on this matter is essential.

Austria is not a NATO member so how much meaningful support, that goes beyond the usual outpouring of rhetoric can we realistically expect from Mr Spindelegger ?

Slovenia is a minnow and NATO newcomer, it contributes significantly less forces to Afghanistan than Macedonia, although its support is appreciated one needs to question its impact. Slovenia’s past history as rotating EU President has shown that they’re incapable of standing up to the more powerful and vocal members of the EU and their own threats against Croatia have shown that they too are disrespectful of the concepts of “inclusion” when there are self serving agendas that are far more important.

On the other hand the Republic of Macedonia enjoys a strong relationship with a very long serving NATO member, Turkey. The Turks are the only NATO member that has insisted to footnote all NATO documents stating it recognizes Macedonia, where the hell are our other so called “powerful advocates” to match this gesture of solidarity with the Republic of Macedonia in this difficult period?

Both U.S. Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder and President Obama have also been vocal supporters of NATO enlargement. NATO expansion has traditionally enjoyed strong bipartisan support in the United States, and the Obama Administration should rally congressional support for NATO's Open Door Policy, specifically pushing for the accession of Macedonia in time for the 2010 Lisbon Summit at the end of the year. Ambassador Daalder should also use the U.S.'s diplomatic channels in Europe, in concert with his colleagues in Athens, to increase international pressure on Greece to resolve this matter expeditiously.

A Fair Solution

NATO expansion has been a major success story for the alliance and has played a crucial role in stabilizing and reforming large parts of Europe. Greece was itself brought into the alliance in 1952 on the first wave of enlargement to advance Europe's strategic reach in southern Europe. Macedonia has chosen a Euro-Atlantic path for its future and met its obligations to qualify for future membership, liberalizing its economy and professionalizing its military. It has shown itself to be capable of providing--not just consuming--security and has constitutionally mandated that it has no territorial aspirations against its neighbors.[2] Its membership prospects must finally be advanced before the window of opportunity closes.

NATO must send a clear message that it remains open for business and that accession is possible for all free, democratic nations in Europe.

NATO needs to be honest to the 65 paragraphs that make up its ‘Strategic Concept,’ anything else is a waste of time for the Republic of Macedonia and an attack on its sovereignty from the very organization entrusted to protect and nurture this and other concepts of democracy.

UMD need to be a lot more honest as well and appropriate blame accordingly not selectively...

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Buktop

You also let your prejudices blind you Vangelovski, rather than staying with UMD and helping from the inside you let your pride take hold of your judgment and the overall cause has suffered.

???????? Buktop, make up your mind on whether I was useful to the cause or not. You're flip-flopping is worse than Meto's.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

???????? Buktop, make up your mind on whether I was useful to the cause or not. You're flip-flopping is worse than Meto's.

You're a clown Buktop, not too long ago you were happy that Vangelovski was no longer part of UMD...

[Rogi]

Excellent post Phoenix and I whole-heartedly agree! NATO itself needs to be made aware of its' own hypocrisy, against it's own declarations, agreements and strategic concepts.


On a minor note, the author of the article is Sally McNamara.
Sally McNamara is Senior Policy Analyst in European Affairs in the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom, a division of the Kathryn and Shelby Cullom Davis Institute for International Studies, at The Heritage Foundation.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Rogi

Excellent post Phoenix and I whole-heartedly agree! NATO itself needs to be made aware of its' own hypocrisy, against it's own declarations, agreements and strategic concepts.


On a minor note, the author of the article is Sally McNamara.
Sally McNamara is Senior Policy Analyst in European Affairs in the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom, a division of the Kathryn and Shelby Cullom Davis Institute for International Studies, at The Heritage Foundation.

Thanks for the compliment Rogi.

In many ways the original article by McNamara says alot about where Macedonia finds itself today as it completely avoids the obligations of the likes of NATO and the EU to ensure credibility within their own structures. McNamara is too focused on Greece, as is UMD.
I would like UMD to make a better effort to tackle not just the hypocrisy and discrimination of the greeks but also the very organizations that the Republic of Macedonia is seeking membership from.

I feel that a better strategy against greece is to challenge the morality of the organizations themselves and their apathetic membership with the belief that in the end the powers of good will prevail over the powers of evil.

To confine this debate to a Macedonia V Greece campaign makes it too difficult for us as this validates many of Greece's positions in a "its your word against mine" scenario but if we can highlight the hypocrisy of the organizations themselves in 'supporting' the greeks perhaps it will bring about a greater awareness of their shortcomings and it may just motivate them to adhere to the founding principles of the Euro-Atlantic structures for the betterment of the group rather than the self serving interests of individual pissants.

I would really like to see UMD take this type of approach, a no nonsense one, calling it as it is...

[osiris]

i concour with rogi phoenix, excellent article.

however lets not beat about the bush anymore nato is still dominated by the usa and britain, not greece. had anyone of these 2 ardent philhellenic nations played hard ball with the neo greeks their littlet rant would have been a lot quieter and more reasonable. but its suits the usa and britain to have conflicts in the balkans.

would macedonia like to be fast tracked into nato and the eu, it would have been very easy a while ago but its near impossible now because we dont have any real bargining chip, we have already bent over for our western masters and their empty promises.

but what the fuck i am pissing aganst the wind here considering most macedonian politicians have grown up in the yes sir no sir culture of the sfry and have no idea wht to do other than adopt another leader whose whims the must obey, rather than keep as many options on the table, keep many lines of contact with all nations in the world especially the ones like russia and chian who were amongst the first to recognise us, and play them off against each other.

its the same in australia our relationship with the alp has been totally unrewarding and yet we still in the main vote labour.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Good analysis Phoenix, well explained.

[osiris]

I would be pretty annoyed if I was not North American but from America somewhere. How do the USA'ns get away with calling themselves "Americans"?

using neo greek logic the only people who have the right to be called americans are the italian americans throughout nth central and sth america, because its an italian name, amerigo vespucci .

also rtg dont worry the onther americans have another more apt name for the nth "americans" gringos.

[Risto the Great]

Show me one Macedonian in the Diaspora who thinks "political correctness" is a priority for an organisation that is meant to represent the Diaspora.

Further, what the hell should Macedonians be cautious about if they are honouring Macedonians from all over geographic Macedonia. Anything less is disgusting.