United Macedonia Diaspora

[Risto the Great]

Vangelovski, I am very much concerned by Macedonia's blind desire to measure up to Western nations. In this process of measuring up, it is losing much of what it holds dear. Macedonia is governed by fear. There can be no doubt about that and if we perpetuate this outlook in the diaspora, then we need to go into that big room full of mirrors and take a long hard look at ourselves.

[Volk]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

If it is a Diaspora organisation, it should be created with the interests of the Diaspora placed first and foremost. The diaspora does not want any compromises and dialogue with people who seek to dismiss or dilute our identity. Members of the Macedonian diaspora are far more self-empowered the longer they stay away from the victim mentality that is prevalent in Macedonia. My belief based on visits to Macedonia is that we clearly have different levels of expectation.

On unification, here is an acceptable statement for me:
"It is our complete preference for unification of all Macedonian lands. Where this is not possible, we will remind and enforce nations of their legal and moral obligations to their Macedonian minorities."

You see, this is the diaspora talking ... not Macedonia. Who exactly are we being nice for? Will the UN not let our little diaspora organisation sit at the table? It won't anyway. Why can't the diaspora organisation be the hard edge of a political ideal in Macedonia? Is this ideal so difficult? The UMD could move to this mentality in 2 quick paragraphs and then, like a virus, the "disease" will spread.

If I was given a form to sign up for my new diaspora organisation that said the following:

1/ We stand for no compromises in relation to our identity. As a consequence, any change to our name will be interpreted as a complete attack on everything we and our ancestors have stood for.

or

2/ We accept that a change to the name like "Democratic republic of Macedonia", whilst not perfect, may help us to move forward in the hope that no further pressure will exist in the future such that we will have to consider another kind of name in the future. But we Macedonians will always know who we are anyway.

I will take 1. and I bet you will too.


I could give a rat's arse whether this is construed as "right" or "left" or whatever. It is simply based on a belief system that we Macedonians had been victims of external influence and we choose not to look outside for acceptable solutions anymore.

Wo cares what Greeks do? Do you really think it is about lobby money? I am positive it has nothing to do with it.

Risto, I honestly believe that what you wrote is almost an identical stand to the UMD. Perhaps not 'worded' the same.

You called for a political modifier as a possible solution, the UMD has stated this also, at the same time Tom was using this as 'proof' of the capitulation of the UMD in regards to the name. Using this logic I am surprised he has not called you a traitor as well.

I dont disagree with anything you said... however I am still not convinced I could swallow a political modifier.

BTW, openly calling for a unification of our nation could prove very self destructing for an organisation, particularly due to the strong greek lobby, which could whisper in Clintons listening ear and almost label them some kind of terrorist organisation, limiting thier work outside of the MK diaspora.

Pozdrav

[Volk]

Macedonia is governed by fear

Unfortunately you are right, I suppose being surrounded by enemies on almost four sides tends to bring out this kind of feeling. Macedonians do have a inferiority complex and I see no quick solution for it.

2001 was a critical point in the development of our mentality and our 'leaders' inability to defend our nation has scarred us in a way few are to understand

[Risto the Great]

Volk, I am not sure where you believe I called for a political modifier and am not comfortable with the allegation. You however, swallowed a political modifier for NATO entry purposes. I think you went on to deny this for a while. But I applaud you if you have changed your mind.

Again, I do not think (nor hope) the UMD has sinister beliefs, but I am beginning to think it is of limited use if it cannot show a backbone whilst it is attempting to take on more of a role in the public arena. Particularly when it is purporting to represent the diaspora in its entirety.

BTW, openly calling for a unification of our nation could prove very self destructing for an organisation, particularly due to the strong greek lobby, which could whisper in Clintons listening ear and almost label them some kind of terrorist organisation, limiting thier work outside of the MK diaspora.

Not stating our preference is misleading to the people that count ... the Macedonians. Did the Albanian terrorists of 2001 concern themselves with (any) Clinton's feelings? I am not even proposing a militant position. But the victim mentality immediately thinks this is the case.

Unfortunately you are right, I suppose being surrounded by enemies on almost four sides tends to bring out this kind of feeling. Macedonians do have a inferiority complex and I see no quick solution for it.

2001 was a critical point in the development of our mentality and our 'leaders' inability to defend our nation has scarred us in a way few are to understand

We are scarred. But have to move on. We need leaders within and outside of Macedonia who are not still showing signs of this scarring by compromising anything. I am looking for people who demand and all I see is weak little scared AND scarred victims.

If it was me running Macedonia. everything stops in relation to negotiations. When Greece eventually settles on a bi-lateral stupidity, I will return any correspondence that does not say Republic of Macedonia. And ask them to send the mail to the EU so that they can correct the terminology so that it respects the rights of a sovereign nation.

[Volk]

Sorry Risto I misunderstood you, it seems just like you misunderstood me, I have never called for a name change, never will. I did say accept NATO entry under fyrom, like we are in the UN and other organizations.

Did the Albanian terrorists of 2001 concern themselves with (any) Clinton's feelings

Those same terrorists where created by the US and if you remember right they said they where fighting for their rights, its called PR... they say one thing but are actually fighting for another, everyone does this.

What you seem to want out of an diaspora org is complete transparency which in this day and age is not realistic. Look at what the greeks are saying... they do not admit they want to wipe our nation out but that is exactly what they are doing. Are they traitors to their people?? can you understand my logic?

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Volk

I have never called for a name change, never will. I did say accept NATO entry under fyrom, like we are in the UN and other organizations.

If you read my posts I have never said you accepted anything more than that.

Originally Posted by Volk

Those same terrorists where created by the US and if you remember right they said they where fighting for their rights, its called PR... they say one thing but are actually fighting for another, everyone does this.

What you seem to want out of an diaspora org is complete transparency which in this day and age is not realistic. Look at what the greeks are saying... they do not admit they want to wipe our nation out but that is exactly what they are doing. Are they traitors to their people?? can you understand my logic?

I understand your logic. But I say transparency is better than what we have now. And will be a first for our people. You are really talking about the Greek government and not the Greek diaspora when you talk about hidden agendas. The Greek diaspora wants us all to go quietly to Russia or somewhere. The Greek government wants the same thing, but will not say it.

You and I are not opposed in all of our thoughts. What is so wrong with a diaspora organisation demanding rights for Macedonians in Macedonia and elsewhere? You will say nothing is wrong with this. But are we really seeing that coming from the UMD if we cannot see them publicly condemning the actions of politicians who have crossed the line in relation to our identity? So we are both really talking about PR, but what kind of PR are we in the business of? I think Macedonians in Macedonia have a right to feel they have been betrayed by a hypocritical United Nations and can surely muster sufficient PR to justify repelling the attacks on their sovereignty.

[Vangelovski]

Volk,

Since when do a people need to justify their need for human rights or their claims for self-determination? And how exactly does one achieve these rights by undermining them?

[King Makedon]

Originally Posted by Volk

Unfortunately you are right, I suppose being surrounded by enemies on almost four sides tends to bring out this kind of feeling. Macedonians do have a inferiority complex and I see no quick solution for it.

2001 was a critical point in the development of our mentality and our 'leaders' inability to defend our nation has scarred us in a way few are to understand

Macedonians in Macedonia suffer really from those complexes, no doubt about it.
2001 was created (as many do believe in Macedonia) by the greeks. they sponsored the albanians to take action, so that the western part would fall in to Albanian/Kosovarian and the eastern part to Bulgaria.
If that is correct, so the greeks have forgotten something. We don't want to be nothing than macedonian. We see everybody else as occupiers and non-macedonians in any cases.

[Risto the Great]

KM, I think you give the Greeks more credit than they deserve.
2001 had much more to do with the USA than Greece in my opinion.

[Risto the Great]

UMD Congratules President Ivanov

WASHINGTON, D.C. - UMD sent a letter today to President Gjorge Ivanov on the occasion of his inauguration as the 4th President of the Republic of Macedonia.

The full text of the letter from UMD follows:

Dear President Ivanov:

It is with great pleasure that we at the United Macedonian Diaspora congratulate you on your inauguration as the 4th President of the Republic of Macedonia.

Today, Macedonia faces great challenges. Principal among them are the name dispute with Greece, and attacks on the Macedonian people, nation and sovereignty.

UMD is confident that, under your able leadership, Macedonia will meet these challenges with strength and courage, that it will continue to protect its sovereign constitutional name and identity, pursue democratic reforms, and address pressing social and economic needs.

UMD will remain steadfastly aligned with the people of Macedonia, and will promote greater mutual understanding between Macedonia and the community of nations.

We look forward to your initiatives to strengthen relationships throughout Southeast Europe. UMD joins millions of Macedonians throughout the world in wishing you every success as the nation's new President.

With utmost respect,

United Macedonian Diaspora

UMD is confident that, under your able leadership, Macedonia will meet these challenges with strength and courage, that it will continue to protect its sovereign constitutional name and identity, pursue democratic reforms, and address pressing social and economic needs.

I see nothing wrong with this statement. Although it is debatable that Macedonia has continued anything in relation to protecting its sovereign constitutional name and identity.

UMD will remain steadfastly aligned with the people of Macedonia, and will promote greater mutual understanding between Macedonia and the community of nations.

This is misleading. UMD has no need to be aligned with ALL the people of Macedonia. Just the Diaspora. I think it is clear the Diaspora has different expectations to the citizens of Macedonia.