United Macedonia Diaspora

[TajnataKniga]

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I don't think its ever been used (new flag) in my community here in Victoria...

Which raises a very interesting point, I know that many organizations like the begaltsi use the Kutlesh and I imagine the vast majority of the diaspora only use the Kutlesh, so if UMD is the representative of the diaspora that THEY claim they ar,e what stops them, like everyone else in the diaspora from using the Kutlesh...?

Why does UMD fly the current flag at official engagements, they should represent the diaspora not the OFFICIAL government...surely?

call them up and ask. you bring up an important point and they should have the kutlesh flag at all their events!

phoenix - can you tell me why the 'ventilator' was flown at the event with gruevski on the youtube video i posted?

[Phoenix]

call them up and ask. you bring up an important point and they should have the kutlesh flag at all their events!

phoenix - can you tell me why the 'ventilator' was flown at the event with gruevski on the youtube video i posted?

i'm not sure mate...what do you think...?

I can't be bothered with half of those youtube links they give me the shits waiting for them to load...so I don't know the context of the event, whether it was organized by UMD directly, whether it was a Macedonian community initiative or whether it was sponsored by the Government themsleves...???

I'm assuming you've seen the clip in full, what do you reckon...?

[TajnataKniga]

you must have a bad connection phoenix :-) my video loaded pretty quickly.

i dont know who organized the event, all i know is that the 'ventilator' was flown. it was a BIG 'ventilator' meaning that all australians who were present support the interim accord. really sad!

[Phoenix]

you must have a bad connection phoenix :-) my video loaded pretty quickly.

i dont know who organized the event, all i know is that the 'ventilator' was flown. it was a BIG 'ventilator' meaning that all australians who were present support the interim accord. really sad!

C'mon now, don't act like a dickhead...

I don't know where you come from but I'm very confident that the vast number of Australian Macedonians are against the interim accord, most Macedonians are either against the new flag or are totally indifferent about it.

I can assure you that most Australian Macedonian, Church, Social, Cultural and Sporting groups exclusively use the Star of Kutlesh...and my bet would be that the event that we're discussing was an official Macedonian Government sponsored event...hence the use of the 'official' flag...

BUT Kniga, tell us where you stand on the use of the Kutlesh...as a "third generation Macedonian", do you have a particular preference...?

[TajnataKniga]

maybe vangelovski should answer since he was connecting dots.

as far as where i stand, see my avatar. i respect both but kutlesh more obviously because i dont come from the current nation-state macedonia, but from what is now known as grease. i respect that my cousins who live in the current nation-state macedonia though use the new flag. doesnt mean that by using the new flag you are legitimizing the interim accord or blasphemy.

[Phoenix]

I love Ohrid and its about time it was recognized for its immense natural beauty, its unique topography and geology and the vast richness of its history...in many ways it will be an absolute shame when too many dickhead tourists discover it...

[Phoenix]

maybe vangelovski should answer since he was connecting dots.

as far as where i stand, see my avatar. i respect both but kutlesh more obviously because i dont come from the current nation-state macedonia, but from what is now known as grease. i respect that my cousins who live in the current nation-state macedonia though use the new flag. doesnt mean that by using the new flag you are legitimizing the interim accord or blasphemy.

Kniga, you recently described yourself as a "third generation Macedonian", care to elaborate?

[Buktop]

Buktop, I honestly believe that UMD handled the Afghanistan troop deployment announcement very poorly.

UMD and every other Macedonian representative association should under no circumstances give the impression that they're promoting American Foreign policy...you simply do not "applaud" any involvement in a foreign war and with a foreign agenda at play...

UMD have come across as total American arse kissers, with this announcement UMD look like they're putting American interests ahead of Macedonian interests...its not in the interest of any Macedonian to be getting shot at in some Middle Eastern shithole or any other place outside of Macedonia.

Why does UMD act like the cheerleader for the stupid decisions that the Macedonian Government is forced to undertake because of pressure applied by foreign governments...

UMD isn't the Macedonian Government media representative, or are they...?

This is where the confusion starts...who is UMD representing...???

You are right Phoenix, nobody wants to fight a war for anyone else. I understood the applause as an acknowledgment of beneficial policy for Macedonia. We can all see the benefits of such a deployment. The soldiers that fight in Afghanistan take away skills and training that can help improve the defense of Macedonia, especially when concerning the Albanian Guerrillas. Not only that, but we draw stronger ties with other nations who are involved.

Unless you can tie UMD to the Macedonian government the accusation is just hearsay.

[Bill77]

You are right Phoenix, nobody wants to fight a war for anyone else. I understood the applause as an acknowledgment of beneficial policy for Macedonia. We can all see the benefits of such a deployment. The soldiers that fight in Afghanistan take away skills and training that can help improve the defense of Macedonia, especially when concerning the Albanian Guerrillas. Not only that, but we draw stronger ties with other nations who are involved.

Unless you can tie UMD to the Macedonian government the accusation is just hearsay.

Took the words out of my mouth. Although i realise our soldiers lives are at risk, i Don't think there role has no benefits for us and our future.

[Bill77]

Ohrid is nice, Ama Bitola ne ja Davam.

Da zivej Makedonia i Grada Bitola.

[Daskalot]

Please explain the diferance Dimko. I'm in no way having a go at you, but i can't get my brain around what you just said.

They do not share our language and culture at present, they however have a genetic similarities with us. This is what Dimko means I think.

[Bill77]

They do not share our language and culture at present, they however have a genetic similarities with us. This is what Dimko means I think.

Oh, i thought if you are of macedonian descent, you are a Macedonian. If we look at Dimko's meaning, Then those "Descendents" of Macedonians that live abroad like in the USA or Australia, that use the English as there main language and culture therfor are not Macedonians just like the Kalesh. Or am i reading it wrong again.

[Vangelovski]

can you share with us the proof you have about UMD supporting the framework agreement? was UMD around went the framework agreement was signed or the interim accord?

Its in most of their press releases - READ THEM. Further, after many calls on them to withdraw their support, they have point blank refused. UMD did not have to "be around" when they were signed - they are in effect now and UMD can speak out against them like most Macedonian organisations in Australia do.

[Vangelovski]

you are beating around the bush...ok the macedonian government capitulated by signing the interim accord but 110 parliament people out 115 voted in favor of the flag, that means overwhelming support, by all parties in macedonia. where were the patriotic macedonians then? why didnt anyone in macedonia stand up to the macedonian government? where was the uproar?

gruevski visited your community? ya of course he did and the 'ventilator' was flown...see the flag in the youtube video.

my questions didnt focus on UMD, we're not discussing UMD and its so-called (your belief) 'support' for the interim accord and the framework agreement. what we are discussing is why the f*** did the australians have the ventilator at their event with gruevski? and also why they had the australian flag, a country that does not recognize your country macedonia.

That video's title shows its in Melbourne - I'm not from Melbourne.

You seem to be running the same argument as Buktop re parliamentarians voting for the ventilator. Have a good think about it and ask yourself as to whether these parliamentarians even had any authority to even vote on something that was demanded by a foreign government. Think about what a constitution is and how it relates to the government. Think about where the government's authority comes from and to what extent it is legitimate for a government to act beyond the authority expressly provided to it.

[Phoenix]

You are right Phoenix, nobody wants to fight a war for anyone else. I understood the applause as an acknowledgment of beneficial policy for Macedonia. We can all see the benefits of such a deployment. The soldiers that fight in Afghanistan take away skills and training that can help improve the defense of Macedonia, especially when concerning the Albanian Guerrillas. Not only that, but we draw stronger ties with other nations who are involved.

Unless you can tie UMD to the Macedonian government the accusation is just hearsay.

Buktop, its not the point...

The point is that the Afghan engagement is a NATO lead operation.
At last count NATO rejected our application on nothing more than our identity.

What UMD should have expressed was their disgust that Macedonian lives were being put on the line for an organization that has proven to be essentially anti-Macedonian.