Latest News & Developments

[DedoAleko]

WikiLeaks: Venizelos’ surname was Turkoglu and he is the creator of the embargo on Macedonia

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Greece, Evangelos Venizelos, was born Turkoglu, which translated from Turkish means “son of Turk”, but has changed it in order to advance in his political career.

As MIA reports from Brussels, this information is communicated by the U.S. Embassy to Athens, and recently through the site “Wiki leaks” came out within the discovered correspondences of diplomatic representative of the United States worldwide.

Venizelos is Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Greece from 25 July 2013 and was previously Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance from 17 June 2011 to 21 March 2012. He is a member of the Greek parliament from the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) in the first district of Thessaloniki.

According to official data, Venizelos is directly involved in the name dispute with Macedonia in the period when Greece opposed the use of the name “Macedonia” by the newly independent Republic of Macedonia.

izvor: http://kurir.mk/en/2013/11/18/wikile...-on-macedonia/

[DedoAleko]

War over Alexander the Great to rumble on

Skopje museum plans sculpture of the Macedonian king and other famous ancient figures

The director of an archaeological museum opening later this year in Skopje, the capital of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, says it will have 15 wax sculptures of historical figures, including Alexander the Great (below), his father Philip II and the philosopher Aristotle, which will do little to improve relations with Greece or Bulgaria.

Greeks and Bulgarians have bitterly contested Macedonia’s claim to figures such as Alexander. Greece has also been involved in a 22-year naming dispute with Macedonia, the name adopted by the Balkan state in 1991 after the break up of Yugoslavia. The Greek government fears that Macedonia may stake a territorial claim to a northern area of Greece, which is also called Macedonia.

Ian Worthington, a professor at the University of Missouri, says the display is controversial—“clearly emphasising to all and sundry their claim to Alexander and Philip II”. He says, however, that Skopje is in the heart of the ancient Macedonian kingdom and having a statue of Alexander is “rather like putting up a statue of a famous son in his home town”.

Paul Cartledge, the professor of Greek culture at the University of Cambridge, is sceptical. “The so-called Republic of ‘Macedonia’ is located in what was ancient Paeonia, and the ancient Paeonians were non-Greeks whom the (Greek) Macedonians conquered and incorporated in their European empire,” he says. The Greek Embassy in London declined to comment.

izvor: http://www.theartnewspaper.com/artic...umble-on/30973

[George S.]

so what if it claims does that bother anyone apart from Greece.?

[Daskalot]

WikiLeaks: Venizelos’ surname was Turkoglu and he is the creator of the embargo on Macedonia

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Greece, Evangelos Venizelos, was born Turkoglu, which translated from Turkish means “son of Turk”, but has changed it in order to advance in his political career.

As MIA reports from Brussels, this information is communicated by the U.S. Embassy to Athens, and recently through the site “Wiki leaks” came out within the discovered correspondences of diplomatic representative of the United States worldwide.

Venizelos is Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Greece from 25 July 2013 and was previously Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance from 17 June 2011 to 21 March 2012. He is a member of the Greek parliament from the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) in the first district of Thessaloniki.

According to official data, Venizelos is directly involved in the name dispute with Macedonia in the period when Greece opposed the use of the name “Macedonia” by the newly independent Republic of Macedonia.

izvor: http://kurir.mk/en/2013/11/18/wikile...-on-macedonia/

Here is the wikileaks page:

http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/10/09ATHENS1535.html

And the relevant part:

Ministry of Defense

-----------------------



¶8. (SBU) Evangelos Venizelos: Leader of a PASOK faction that has
traditionally been in opposition to Papandreou. A university
professor of constitutional law born in 1957, Mr. Venizelos (nee
Turkoglu) collided with Mr. Papandreou over the party leadership in
2007 - and decisively lost. He first entered parliament in 1993 and
has risen to the status of leading PASOK member from Thessaloniki.
Mr. Venizelos held cabinet portfolios in previous PASOK
administrations and was member of top party organs. At Defense,
Mr. Venizelos will be expected to deal with the impasse of arms
procurement and energize an organization demoralized by the
disinterest and lack of direction under the previous government.
His understanding of defense matters is minimal at present,
although his supporters suggest that he is a "fast learner" and
will make up for an absence of practical experience with his
trademark workaholic approach.

ATHENS 00001535 003 OF 006

[DedoAleko]

EU presidency tells Macedonia it must "accept European values" to progress - YouTube

[Risto the Great]

EU presidency tells Macedonia it must "accept European values" to progress - YouTube

http://www.euractiv.com/macedonia/eu-presidency-tells-macedonia-ac-news-532959

Evangelos Venizelos, the foreign minister of Greece, which holds the Council of the EU's rotating presidency, said on Tuesday (21 January) that the main obstacle to Macedonia’s EU membership was the country’s lack of respect for European values.

“The obstacle for the beginning of accession negotiations especially between the EU and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is not the so-called name issue," said Venizelos, who was speaking at the EU-Serbia conference in Brussels on Tuesday (21 January).

"The problem is the acceptance of European values and the fulfillment of the political criteria of Copenhagen,” Venizelos said, adding he was speaking in his “capacity as the president of the Council of the EU,” representing the 28 EU member states.

Macedonia has been an official EU candidate since 2005 and received a positive recommendation by the European Commission to start accession talks but has failed to actually initial them due to a lack of consensus among the EU member states.

To Skopje, the only reason for the blockade is Greece's refusal to accept "Macedonia" as country's name. The internationally recognised name is the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) but Skopje would prefer the country to be called simply Macedonia, which is also the name of a northern Greek province.

The reasons appear to be deeper, however. The last Council conclusions Commission assessment both expressed serious concerns over the country’s democratic progress. The reports cited blurred distinctions between the party and state, assault on media freedom and lack of independency from the judiciary, leading some EU diplomats to say the country had taken steps “backwards”.

>> Read also Macedonia’s ethnic Albanians lose patience over EU accession talks

Although the name dispute between Greece and Macedonia had undermined relations since 1995, Skopje was nonetheless accepted as a fully-fledged member of the United Nations. And unlike for the start of EU talks, Athens did not block the country’s official EU candidate status in 2005.

Opinion is divided over why Greece decided to block Macedonia’s EU path as of 2008, but many see the actions of Macedonia's right-wing government coalition of VMRO-DPMNE, which came to power in 2006, as “sheer provocation” towards Greece.

The building of a statue of Alexander the Great in the centre of Skopje, the renaming of roads after the controversial warrior or the use of a map of “Great Macedonia” in presence of the Macedonian premier, Nikola Gruevski, were all considered by Athens as irredentist claims over its territory and history.

Serbia as facilitator?

Asked by EurActiv whether Belgrade could act as a facilitator in relations between the Skopje and Athens dispute now that Serbia was a negotiating country, Ivica Dačić, the Serbian prime minister, said: “You want us to help in that dispute? Don’t involve us in that, please,” Dačić said jokingly in his native Serb.

“But of course we want an acceptable solution. We have enough of our own problems but I’m pleased you’re asking us to get involved, it shows a change. Earlier nobody would have asked us to help anything, they would just tell us to stay away,” he continued, amusing the Serb-speaking audience and hinting at Serbia’s former status of “pariah state” under Milošević’s regime.

As soon as the translation went back, Dačić said however more seriously that if their “friends and brothers”, pointing at the Greek minister, “ask us to get involved, of course we can offer our good will.”

POSITIONS:
Richard Howitt MEP (Socialists & Democrats), rapporteur in the European Parliament on Macedonia said: "The Greek Foreign Affairs Ministry has assured me that they will conduct their presidency in relation to Skopje objectively on behalf of the European Union as a whole.

"I am asking them to go further by seeing it as an opportunity for both sides to make genuine and sincere efforts to resolve the name issue, and to work towards a solution for the EU talks to begin."

The EU Parliament voted a resolution on Tuesday (21 January) on Macedonia that calls on "the current Greek presidency of the European Union should be turned to an advantage not an obstacle, in the light of the long-running name dispute between Athens and Skopje."

I don't know what to say.
The rest of Europe used to enjoy going to Greece to get in touch with peasant mentality of the endearing little fat hairy southerners. Now the Greeks feel they are European. In a way they are. In more ways they are an unhealthy anachronism that shames Europe on a daily basis.

To all the Serbophile Macedonians that haunt this forum, after you go and get fucked, please read the assistance the Greek's "brothers and friends" are willing to offer.

[Stojacanec]

The Serbs would be the last people on the plant I would go to for help. Macedonia would have to get the knife out of her back first.

..And to the fat retard from the south; what European values were Macedonia missing to get into Nato when Albania and Croatia entered if the name is not an issue? Please reconcile for me the differences there?

[Dejan]

Shouldn't we be staging peaceful rallies in front of these institutions in order to show closed minded people the problems behind the curtain?

[George S.]

the eu doesn't eally recognize us, the greeks have seen to that.So what do people think joimnng the eu everything will be ok? Not really foregoing your identity is very important,your very existence is at stake no one really cares about the poor Macedonians.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Same old bullshit. Serbs, or at least most of their politicians, religious leaders and nationalists, have always supported Greece's idiotic crusade against Macedonia. That we have enemies surrounding us on all sides has never been a secret, but if our politicians just had a shred of integrity as it relates to our identity, those enemies would not be as courageous as they are now and nor would they freely step all over us with these pathetic lies and demands.

[Sweet Sixteen]

WikiLeaks: Venizelos’ surname was Turkoglu and he is the creator of the embargo on Macedonia

Hello everybody!

I have to inform you that this Turkoglou story is false. It started as an urban legend (I don't really know when) and it was all cleared out in 2007 when Venizelos himself sued... Wikipedia for mentioning this false info.

I'm very interested in internet dissemination of false stories so I feel I have to mention that the culprit in this case was a journalist of the English-speaking Greek newspaper Athens News, called Markos Dragoumis (later accused of being a British agent of MI6). When sued, Dragoumis partly retracted his story first saying that it was not Venizelos who changed his surname but his ancestor (grandfather or great-grandfather). He later retracted more by saying that the surname was not Turkoglou (=son of Turk) but Turkozioglou (=son of songwriter). Lastly, he admitted that the name was not Turkozioglou either.

Actually the true (original) surname of Venizelos is indeed… Venizelos and his paternal line ancestors were from Carystos. His grandfather and great-grandfather were priests. They are not related in any way to the family of Eleutherios Venizelos.

I also have to point out that Venizelos was not the creator of the embargo and by 1993 he was simply the Government's spokesman and the youngest minister. It’s fair to say that the creator of the embargo was Andreas Papandreou who followed a different (more aggressive) policy than Mitsotakis.

These discussions can become silly, but if anybody is interested, Pangalos who was fanatic against the embargo claimed (at a later point) that A. Papandreou was misled before the 1993 elections by some Macedonian politicians who entered the embargo promise in his speech in Thessaloniki without him knowing!

Pangalos doesn’t say who was the one who… fooled Papandreou (he says it was not Tsohatzopoulos) but I would rather suspect other Thessalonian MPs, mostly Papathemelis.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Hello everybody!

Hi, or should it be welcome back?

These discussions can become silly, but if anybody is interested, Pangalos who was fanatic against the embargo claimed (at a later point) that A. Papandreou was misled before the 1993 elections by some Macedonian politicians who entered the embargo promise in his speech in Thessaloniki without him knowing!

Pangalos doesn’t say who was the one who… fooled Papandreou (he says it was not Tsohatzopoulos) but I would rather suspect other Thessalonian MPs, mostly Papathemelis.

For the sake of both accuracy and clarity, don't mislead readers by referring to Greek politicians as Macedonian politicians.

[VMRO]

Hello everybody!

I have to inform you that this Turkoglou story is false. It started as an urban legend (I don't really know when) and it was all cleared out in 2007 when Venizelos himself sued... Wikipedia for mentioning this false info.

I'm very interested in internet dissemination of false stories so I feel I have to mention that the culprit in this case was a journalist of the English-speaking Greek newspaper Athens News, called Markos Dragoumis (later accused of being a British agent of MI6). When sued, Dragoumis partly retracted his story first saying that it was not Venizelos who changed his surname but his ancestor (grandfather or great-grandfather). He later retracted more by saying that the surname was not Turkoglou (=son of Turk) but Turkozioglou (=son of songwriter). Lastly, he admitted that the name was not Turkozioglou either.

Actually the true (original) surname of Venizelos is indeed… Venizelos and his paternal line ancestors were from Carystos. His grandfather and great-grandfather were priests. They are not related in any way to the family of Eleutherios Venizelos.

I also have to point out that Venizelos was not the creator of the embargo and by 1993 he was simply the Government's spokesman and the youngest minister. It’s fair to say that the creator of the embargo was Andreas Papandreou who followed a different (more aggressive) policy than Mitsotakis.

These discussions can become silly, but if anybody is interested, Pangalos who was fanatic against the embargo claimed (at a later point) that A. Papandreou was misled before the 1993 elections by some Macedonian politicians who entered the embargo promise in his speech in Thessaloniki without him knowing!

Pangalos doesn’t say who was the one who… fooled Papandreou (he says it was not Tsohatzopoulos) but I would rather suspect other Thessalonian MPs, mostly Papathemelis.

Please provide sources because your statement above has no merit without back up.

[George S.]

Des anyone seriously cares about the bs stories they the greeks concoct themselves.IN the end they are allways exaggerating aren't they.THey still believe the british are keeping the elgin marbles & they have to hand them back.We are still waiting & won't hold our breath.THe call was made a long ,long time ago.The brits aint giving them back.I don't believe anything the greeks say or do as most it is pure & adulterated bs.

[Risto the Great]

Hello everybody!

I have to inform you that this Turkoglou story is false. It started as an urban legend (I don't really know when) and it was all cleared out in 2007 when Venizelos himself sued... Wikipedia for mentioning this false info.

Wikileaks or Wkipedia? It would be silly to sue Wikipedia if it appeared in Wikileaks. Can you get your facts right?

I have to mention that the culprit in this case was a journalist of the English-speaking Greek newspaper Athens News, called Markos Dragoumis (later accused of being a British agent of MI6). When sued, Dragoumis partly retracted his story first saying that it was not Venizelos who changed his surname but his ancestor (grandfather or great-grandfather). He later retracted more by saying that the surname was not Turkoglou (=son of Turk) but Turkozioglou (=son of songwriter). Lastly, he admitted that the name was not Turkozioglou either.

Show me where he stated and subsequently retracted it. Can you?

These discussions can become silly, but if anybody is interested, Pangalos who was fanatic against the embargo claimed (at a later point) that A. Papandreou was misled before the 1993 elections by some Macedonian politicians who entered the embargo promise in his speech in Thessaloniki without him knowing!

Pangalos doesn’t say who was the one who… fooled Papandreou (he says it was not Tsohatzopoulos) but I would rather suspect other Thessalonian MPs, mostly Papathemelis.

I don't even understand who you are talking about here or what you are trying to say. But definitely stupid of you to try and call some of your politicians as Macedonians in this context.

Further, I bet you are not sweet sixteen. Your picture is much older than that.