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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-13-2010, 02:54 AM   #1201
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Buktop, are you for real? Are you saying you honestly cannot understand the role of the parliament and executive government in a republic and where its authority comes from and how it is limited? Or are you just clogging up the thread as usual?
I know the role of the parliament and executive government, I am asking if you know, because your attitudes seem to suggest otherwise, now I have asked you 10 times to answer 3 simple questions, WHY HAVEN'T YOU? Why are you avoiding these questions?
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:57 AM   #1202
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Again, read and understand my posts, I left before UMD bylaws were finalised and adopted. A few days ago you were arguing that UMD had too little members who were far too geographically spread out to hold elections. Now that your master has contradicted you, you've changed your tune.
So you left before the bylaws were finalized and you are here claiming to know something about the internal workings of UMD? You claim to know more than everyone here about the "secret agenda" of UMD and you don't even know the bylaws?
Why don't you address this while we are at it. How can you claim to know so much about UMD when you don't even know the bylaws? What is your agenda here?
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:04 AM   #1203
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Vangelovski, how about you answer my questions that you have been dodging for at least 10 posts now rather than wasting your precious time thinking up new insults for me?

Phoenix, you don't have to like me, and you can call me whatever you like, but the fact remains that you cannot disprove my arguments and that is why you resort to such insults. It's been a while since you have added a post with any real substance to these debates.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:15 AM   #1204
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I was a co-founder of UMD, I'm quite aware of what the thinking is in the organisation.
You were a co-founder and yet you don't even know the bylaws. You left 2 years ago, I don't know why you keep bringing up that you co-founded it because you are obviously trying to destroy it for some personal reason.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:15 AM   #1205
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Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Hi blackcactus,

this is the crux of the problem, any organization that claims to represent the masses can't afford to be labled "ambiguous".
I agree, statements should be as clear as possible

I suspect that press release that Vangelovski high-lighted was for a different audience (other than Macedonians) and some political speak may have been used

Who they think was the audience should be cleared up so those statements can be put into context (assuming we don't wish UMD to be a militant organisation we "may" understand where they are coming from on this)

I personally ask the question.. What good work (if any) has UMD done for Macedonia and the Macedonians?

What my answer is (which changes over time) is how I feel about UMD or any other Macedonian group at any one time

I have known you a long time Phoenix, you want things out in the open and cleared up, you don't take BS kindly, I fully understand your view on this

Your brother

BC

PS: I hope I didn't confuse you, looking though what I wrote reads like a dogs breakfast
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:02 AM   #1206
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
You were a co-founder and yet you don't even know the bylaws. You left 2 years ago, I don't know why you keep bringing up that you co-founded it because you are obviously trying to destroy it for some personal reason.
Buktop, I think its time that you show your cards - rather than accusing everyone of "personal" agenda's while hiding behind an internet pseudonym.

Why do you blindly defend UMD? Are you a UMD member? Are you a UMD Board Member? Why are you acting as an apologist for UMD's blatant support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement? Living in New Jersey (Meto's home state), what are you links to Meto?
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:04 AM   #1207
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Buktop, I've answered your ridiculous questions - not only that, but I've taken it about 10 steps further. Try reading it. If you reply with something sensible, maybe we can move on, otherwise, I'll have to revert back to calling you a Charlatan.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:07 AM   #1208
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I know so much about UMD because I was apart of the leadership for four years. The bylaws (as I've already stated) were only started in the final months I was there. I can post the version that I have, but it may not be the final one. You'd better check with your Master just in case he doesn't want you to push that - or do you want to back down now? In fact, the entire time I've publically questioned UMD, I've only kept to their PUBLIC statements. If I wanted to cause real damage, instead of putting them on the right path, I could easily have devulged the contents of internal conversations.

As per you'r "knowledge" Charlatan, provide a sensible response to my post - I've already answered your ridiculous questions and taken it about 10 steps forward.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:30 AM   #1209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I know so much about UMD because I was apart of the leadership for four years. The bylaws (as I've already stated) were only started in the final months I was there. I can post the version that I have, but it may not be the final one. You'd better check with your Master just in case he doesn't want you to push that - or do you want to back down now? In fact, the entire time I've publically questioned UMD, I've only kept to their PUBLIC statements. If I wanted to cause real damage, instead of putting them on the right path, I could easily have devulged the contents of internal conversations.

As per you'r "knowledge" Charlatan, provide a sensible response to my post - I've already answered your ridiculous questions and taken it about 10 steps forward.
Started? Vangelovski, what was the exact date of your resignation? And what was the exact date of the approval of the bylaws? You claim to know so much, and yet until yesterday you didn't even know that UMD board members held elections... You were complaining to me that "a democratic organization should hold elections" and yet you didn't even know that they do hold them.

You were a board member for 4 years and you don't know anything about UMD... or you are intentionally misrepresenting the facts. Why don't you come clean?
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:40 AM   #1210
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In the opinion of James Madison
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Representative democracy (Republic) is a form of government founded on the principle of elected individuals representing the people, as opposed to either autocracy or direct democracy.

The representatives form an independent ruling body (for an election period) charged with the responsibility of acting in the people's interest, but not as their proxy representatives; that is, not necessarily always according to their wishes, but with enough authority to exercise swift and resolute initiative in the face of changing circumstances.
Was that so hard Vangelovski? You have strayed into constitutional mandate when all I asked for was a few simple questions concerning representative bodies of Macedonia. Now why don't you show me the relevant articles of the Macedonian constitution that expressly prohibit parliamentarians from voting on a new flag.

I am not saying that it is right, I am saying due to a flawed constitution these parliamentarians have the right to negotiate. And not only that, but the fact that the citizens that voted for the parliamentarians did not object also signifies consent (as I have argued with you about before)
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