First printed Macedonian alphabet by Gjorgji Pulevski

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Chicho Makedonski

If someone asked when Macedonian became an alphabet. Would 1945 be the correct answer when the alphabet was codified or 9th century AD when the Cyrillic alphabet was created by the Macedonian Saints Naum and Clement as a simplified form of Glagolitic?

Broadly speaking, it is the 9th century, because the modern Macedonian language descends from the spoken language in medieval Macedonia that served as the basis for the creation of both the Glagolitic and Cyrillic alphabets. All those that followed, including Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, etc. are merely simplified versions of the latter and were standardised at different times. The codification of the modern Macedonian alphabet in 1945 coincides with the first time in modern history that Macedonian statehood was officially acknowledged (albeit within the confines of a federal Yugoslavia). However, prior to that development, Macedonian dialects were, continuously if not always regularly, written in one form of Cyrillic or another for over 1,000 years. Peel back the layers of history and the roads of all modern Cyrillic alphabets lead back to the scholars from 9th century Macedonia.

On a side note, Bulgaria, which, in 1878, gained de facto independence from the Ottoman Empire following the Russian intervention they conveniently attempt to downplay nowadays (despite their largest cathedral in Sofia being named after a Russian ruler from the 13th century as a homage to the people who actually created Bulgaria), was still making adjustments to its alphabet in 1945. Moreover, aside from an abundance of Russian loanwords, they also use the letter я, which is a Russian mutation of the old Cyrillic letters ꙗ and ѧ. That does not justify some perceived imperfections in the modern Macedonian alphabet, but it does highlight the hypocritical absurdity of certain Bulgars who harp on about the incomparable yet supposedly "heavy" Serbian influence during the development of the modern literary language and orthography of Macedonia.

[VMRO]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Broadly speaking, it is the 9th century, because the modern Macedonian language descends from the spoken language in medieval Macedonia that served as the basis for the creation of both the Glagolitic and Cyrillic alphabets. All those that followed, including Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, etc. are merely simplified versions of the latter and were standardised at different times. The codification of the modern Macedonian alphabet in 1945 coincides with the first time in modern history that Macedonian statehood was officially acknowledged (albeit within the confines of a federal Yugoslavia). However, prior to that development, Macedonian dialects were, continuously if not always regularly, written in one form of Cyrillic or another for over 1,000 years. Peel back the layers of history and the roads of all modern Cyrillic alphabets lead back to the scholars from 9th century Macedonia.

On a side note, Bulgaria, which, in 1878, gained de facto independence from the Ottoman Empire following the Russian intervention they conveniently attempt to downplay nowadays (despite their largest cathedral in Sofia being named after a Russian ruler from the 13th century as a homage to the people who actually created Bulgaria), was still making adjustments to its alphabet in 1945. Moreover, aside from an abundance of Russian loanwords, they also use the letter я, which is a Russian mutation of the old Cyrillic letters ꙗ and ѧ. That does not justify some perceived imperfections in the modern Macedonian alphabet, but it does highlight the hypocritical absurdity of certain Bulgars who harp on about the incomparable yet supposedly "heavy" Serbian influence during the development of the modern literary language and orthography of Macedonia.

Totally agree with all of the above SoM.

[Maki]

This would be my ideal alphabet:
Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Дд, Ее, Жж, Зз, Ѕѕ, Ии, Іі, Кк, Лл, Мм, Нн, Оо, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Фф, Хх, Цц, Чч, Џџ, Шш, Щщ, Ъъ, Ьь

I think this version suits the Macedonian language the best as it's made entirely from letters found in Macedonian writers before Yugoslavia and Serbianization, (Yes even Џ is found in some Macedonian works such as those of Pejcinovic), yet also excludes letters that are unnessesary and that would make the language needlessly complicated.

[Maki]

Originally Posted by Niko777

Also something else related to this topic....

There is NO such thing as "latinica" in the Macedonian language!

If you want to spell ЦАР using the English alphabet, then you spell it like this: "TSAR".

Tsar = King
Car = 4 wheeled vehicle that you drive in.

Yes I'm suggesting Скопје should be spelled as Skopye in English.

I disagree. While I understand where you're coming from, I do believe that there should be some sort of standardization to consistently transliterate place names and communicate effectively in situations were cyrillic is not available or easily accessible. Lets face it, are Macedonian boomers really going to download a Macedonian cyrillic keyboard? and would they even know how to do it? obviously not.

Here is my proposal for a reworked Macedonian cyrillic alphabet as posted above:

Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Дд, Ее, Жж, Зз, Ѕѕ, Ии, Іі, Кк, Лл, Мм, Нн, Оо, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Фф, Хх, Цц, Чч, Џџ, Шш, Щщ, Ъъ, Ьь

And here is how I would transliterate it:

Aa, Bb, Vv, Gg, Dd, Ee, Žž, Zz, Dzdz, Ii, Jj, Kk, Ll, Mm, Nn, Oo, Pp, Rr, Ss, Tt, Uu, Ff, Hh, Cc, Čč, Dždž, Šš, Štšt, ', j

Here are some examples:

Училиште --> Училище/Učilište
Скопје --> Скопье/Skopje
Љубов --> Льубов/Ljubov
Држава --> Държава/D'ržava
С'ботско --> Съботско/S'botsko
Ќерка --> Кьерка/Kjerka
Ѓорче Петров --> Гьорче Петров/Gjorče Petrov
Мајка --> Маіка/Majka

I am fine with transliterating Іі as Jj or Yy but I believe Jj looks more natural for a slavic language however Yy would cause less confusion between Іі and Ьь. It shouldn't be too hard though, Іі always comes after vowels and Ьь after consonants.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Maki

This would be my ideal alphabet:
Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Дд, Ее, Жж, Зз, Ѕѕ, Ии, Іі, Кк, Лл, Мм, Нн, Оо, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Фф, Хх, Цц, Чч, Џџ, Шш, Щщ, Ъъ, Ьь

I think this version suits the Macedonian language the best as it's made entirely from letters found in Macedonian writers before Yugoslavia and Serbianization, (Yes even Џ is found in some Macedonian works such as those of Pejcinovic), yet also excludes letters that are unnessesary and that would make the language needlessly complicated.

Can you please explain to me how the letters љ and њ are unnecessary and "Serbianised"? What makes the use of ь more legitimate in your opinion?