United Macedonia Diaspora - Page 625

Vangelovski · 01-15-2012, 07:12 PM

The latest interview with Meto Koloski, President of UMD can be found at the following link:

http://www.makdenes.org/content/article/24450542.html

It still amazes me what I read from Mr Koloski’s UMD. For the last two years he has attempted to convince the Macedonian public that he no longer supports the Interim Accord which handed Macedonian national sovereignty over to Greece and that he no longer supports the name negotiations. Yet, numerous UMD media releases always betrayed that public relations campaign. His latest interview for the Macedonian language section of Radio Free Europe (where he is pictured with the ventilator – see below) demonstrates his true intentions even more clearly.

For example, in response to a question about the latest round of name negotiations, Mr Koloski explained his view was that because of the ICJ’s recent decision (to enforce the Interim Accord and Macedonia’s participation in international organisations as ‘FYROM’) there is greater momentum for negotiations, praising the Macedonian Government’s willingness to negotiate in a ‘constructive’ manner as ‘positive’, and stating that the very fact the two sides are ‘meeting’ (negotiating) to resolve the dispute is also ‘positive’.

After stating this, he contradicts himself by claiming that UMD’s position is that Macedonia should not be negotiating and that the ICJ ruling is now a reason not to be!? On the one hand, he claims that the ICJ ruling provides ‘momentum’ for further negotiations, while on the other, he claims that it’s a reason not to negotiate.

In addition to this, he makes it clear that he considers Greece to have violated the Interim Accord. How is this possible? The vast majority of diaspora organisations reject the Interim Accord outright and do not consider it a legitimate Accord and have called on the Macedonian Government to declare it ‘null and void’. If Mr Koloski believes that Greece has violated the Interim Accord, then he must accept it as a legitimate and valid Accord. One cannot violate an illegitimate agreement that is considered invalid. By considering it as legitimate and valid then by default he accepts the provisions within that Accord and the notion that Macedonian sovereignty be transferred to Greece.

Here is the response in question:

Сега поради тоа што пресудата во Хаг од 5 декември донесе пресуда во полза на Македонијa, дека навистина Грција го прекрши член 11 од Привремената спогодба, сега дефинитивно има повеќе моментум за преговорите. Тоа може да се види и во сигналите од македонската страна, особено во последните 6-7 недели се доста позитивни, дека Македoнија навистина е коструктивната страна, но проблемот е што Грција има транзициска влада, која не може да донесува кој знае какви големи одлуки. Позитивно е тоа што се сретнуваат и што се даваат шанси за решавање на спорот, но не гледaме дека нешто ќе се случи на преговорите што ќе се случуваат на 16-ти и 17-ти.

Ставот на нашата организација од секогаш бил дека не треба да се преговара и особено пресудата во Хаг даде причина повеќе да не преговараме .

If UMD chooses to even engage with the public that it pretends to represent it is most likely to reply that Mr Koloski was simply stating a fact. That may have been semi-plausible, had he not made a value statement as to the desirability and appropriateness of the negotiations, judging Macedonia’s willingness to negotiate as ‘constructive’ and ‘positive’.

UMD, and Mr Koloski in particular, have been known to argue that the United Nations Security Council has passed resolutions requiring Macedonia to negotiate its name in an attempt to deflect criticism of their support for the Interim Accord. However, this is a disingenuous and fallacious argument. The UN Security Council has indeed passed two resolutions (817 and 845) calling on Macedonia and Greece to resolve the name dispute, but what validity do these resolutions actually hold?

The United Nations is nothing more than an international club, of which there are many – the United Nations just happens to have many more members than the others. The United Nations claims that its Charter and its Security Council Resolutions form a body of law, known as ‘international law’. This is highly debatable, as the United Nations holds no democratically delegated authority to make any laws, let alone those that presume to govern all of humanity. However, even if what the United Nations claims to be ‘international law’ is legitimate and valid, no law can override inalienable human rights. These Security Council resolutions do exactly that, which automatically makes them illegitimate and invalid.

Secondly, Mr Koloski would have us believe that Macedonia should implement the resolutions of a club which does not even respect our national sovereignty, including the right to name our own state. These SC Resolutions not only violate our inalienable human rights, but they violate the United Nation’s own Charter. Another disingenuous argument from UMD attempting to convince us that Macedonia has to negotiate, with the understanding that it has to change its name. All the while, they claim they do not support the negotiations.

The interview continues with Mr Koloski providing his views on the ICJ’s ruling and its effect on NATO membership. Mr Koloski states that the ICJ case has given Macedonia a legal basis with which to pressure Greece into implementing the Interim Accord. Here, he openly argues that Greece should implement the Accord and that Macedonia has the legal basis with which to force it to do so! Mr Koloski, in addition, forgets to mention under which name Macedonia would enter NATO – FYROM. All the while, he still claims that UMD does not support the Interim Accord.

На самитот во Букурешт се донесе таа одлука од причина што Грција вети дека ќе стави вето на членството на Макеоднија во НАТО. Сега пресудата од Хаг дефинитвно дава адут на Америка и на НАТО-партнерите дека имаме правен изговор да извршиме некаков притисок кон Грција за да таа го спроведе тоа што го потпишала во 1995-та година, каде што ветува дека нема да ја блокира Македонија. Е, сега тоа зависи и од политичката волја на Америка и на НАТО партнерите.

Mr Koloski continues the interview with the preconceived position that the Interim Accord is both legitimate and valid. Here are some further quotes:

РСЕ: Вие сте претседател на Обединетата македонска дијаспора. Македонската лоби група брои 7 члена, грчката 139, сметате ли дека Македонија со овој распоред на силите во Конгресот има шанси да влијае врз администрацијата на Обама?

Колоски:Видете, јас не би го гледал тоа така, поради тоа што групата е група на конгресмени кои цврсто ќе ја подржуваат Македонија без разлика на која тема. Е сега да дадам споредба, во ноември 2010-та година, 19 конгресмени и 4 сенатори испратија писмо до Обама за подршка на Македонија, а истата година само 32 конгресмени испратија писмо до Обама поддржувајќи ја грчката страна, така што, ако го споредуваме тоа, македонското лоби е доволно цврсто за да изврши некаков притисок, но проблемот е што во 2010-та не беше моментот, не ја имавме пресудата од Хаг и мислам дека сега ќе добиеме многу повеќе поддршка, но треба активно лобирање од страна на дијаспората и од страна на дипломатскиот кор на Македонија во сите места.

It does beg the question, what exactly is Mr Koloski lobbying for? The answer is quite obvious – implementation of the Interim Accord and Macedonia’s accession into NATO as FYROM.

Risto the Great · 01-16-2012, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxy

и во сигналите од македонската страна, особено во последните 6-7 недели се доста позитивни, дека Македoнија навистина е коструктивната страна

Please don't make all Macedonians appear as though they are proud of any suggestion that they they are on the "more willing" side of the negotiation process. It is disgusting and further erodes the dignity of Macedonians. Especially when it comes from an organisation that purports to represent the Macedonian Diaspora.

It is clear the UMD are pro negotiations yet have time and time again denounced any attacks on the identity.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Or you can't be called Macedonia and negotiate your name so you are not Macedonia any more. Can you UMetoD?

Makedonska_Kafana · 01-17-2012, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

It is clear the UMD are pro negotiations yet have time and time again denounced any attacks on the identity.

Risto, NOTHING is clear with the UMD at the best of times - trial and error. Can, someone disclose the number of paid members? Mark Branov? Macedonia 2025? Kiril Gligorov? Phil Reeker? George Soros?

10,000?

Scholarships are awarded on various criteria usually reflecting the values and purposes of the donor or founder of the award.

George S. · 01-17-2012, 06:56 AM

the und don't know what it;s doing where are the goals.I heard them say no to the name negotietions how have the progressed we hear nothing & really have they really made any impact probably not.
There is no real transparency.Meto still has not answered rtg's questions.These are pertinent put up or shut up questions.So we assume that they got something to hide & deliberately avoid our questioning.Umd is also becoming more & more irrelevant simply by it's own doing as time rolls on.

Makedonska_Kafana · 01-17-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George S.

Meto still has not answered rtg's questions.

Meto? You mean Mark? Don't you understand what they've done - no one is fooled. I, hope Mark is getting paid as well as Meto? PR/MAGAZINE/DEFENDER

Vangelovski · 01-24-2012, 07:43 AM

Meto's latest interview (again with the ventilator):

Meto Koloski - United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) - Washington DC, USA - YouTube

I've noticed that Meto, in many of his speeches and interviews, uses a line that basically says our forefathers risked, and some gave, their lives for Macedonia. I listen to him say that with a very heavy heart. We are not asking Meto to do anything of the sort - risk his life - all we ask of him is to take a peaceful and principled stand and use our freely chosen symbol, not the ventilator that was imposed on Macedonia by the Greek Government.

Article 7, Paragraph 2 of the Interim Accord:
Upon entry into force of this Interim Accord, the Party of the Second Part [Macedonia] shall cease to use in any way the symbol in all its forms displayed on its national flag prior to such entry into force.

Why, Meto, are you unwilling to undertake such a simple but powerful act of freedom - to refrain from accepting Greek chauvinism?

George S. · 01-24-2012, 09:13 AM

When all is said & done despite what they say they are apologetics & really they aren't for real representation of the diaspora's views.They seem to be a willing participant of the macedonian govt in whatever it does.No matter how much anti macedonian one gets they seem to be supporting our real enemies.The interim accord is proof enough that the umd is well & truly behind the times when it actually supports it's principles.

Makedonska_Kafana · 02-05-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Why, Meto, are you unwilling to undertake such a simple but powerful act of freedom - to refrain from accepting Greek chauvinism?

Well, they may be willing now (?) however MOST MACEDONIANS will not financially support organizations that do as they please when they (board) please.

END GAME IS HERE

George S. · 02-05-2012, 02:59 PM

mk people can't be gullible that much they'll soon catch on that they are being fleeced.

Makedonska_Kafana · 02-07-2012, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George S.

mk people can't be gullible that much they'll soon catch on that they are being fleeced.

I, talk with many people and MOST young Macedonians don't care about the UMD or any other paid organization .. matter of time. UMD, has had 8 years and still haven't figured out what Macedonians in diaspora countries want and it's NOT the USA political agenda.

NOTE

Even, under the name Republic of Macedonia no one should be thinking about joining a failed European Union.

View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes	2	4.35%
No	44	95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

01-15-2012, 07:12 PM	#6241
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,510	The latest interview with Meto Koloski, President of UMD can be found at the following link: http://www.makdenes.org/content/article/24450542.html It still amazes me what I read from Mr Koloski’s UMD. For the last two years he has attempted to convince the Macedonian public that he no longer supports the Interim Accord which handed Macedonian national sovereignty over to Greece and that he no longer supports the name negotiations. Yet, numerous UMD media releases always betrayed that public relations campaign. His latest interview for the Macedonian language section of Radio Free Europe (where he is pictured with the ventilator – see below) demonstrates his true intentions even more clearly. For example, in response to a question about the latest round of name negotiations, Mr Koloski explained his view was that because of the ICJ’s recent decision (to enforce the Interim Accord and Macedonia’s participation in international organisations as ‘FYROM’) there is greater momentum for negotiations, praising the Macedonian Government’s willingness to negotiate in a ‘constructive’ manner as ‘positive’, and stating that the very fact the two sides are ‘meeting’ (negotiating) to resolve the dispute is also ‘positive’. After stating this, he contradicts himself by claiming that UMD’s position is that Macedonia should not be negotiating and that the ICJ ruling is now a reason not to be!? On the one hand, he claims that the ICJ ruling provides ‘momentum’ for further negotiations, while on the other, he claims that it’s a reason not to negotiate. In addition to this, he makes it clear that he considers Greece to have violated the Interim Accord. How is this possible? The vast majority of diaspora organisations reject the Interim Accord outright and do not consider it a legitimate Accord and have called on the Macedonian Government to declare it ‘null and void’. If Mr Koloski believes that Greece has violated the Interim Accord, then he must accept it as a legitimate and valid Accord. One cannot violate an illegitimate agreement that is considered invalid. By considering it as legitimate and valid then by default he accepts the provisions within that Accord and the notion that Macedonian sovereignty be transferred to Greece. Here is the response in question: Сега поради тоа што пресудата во Хаг од 5 декември донесе пресуда во полза на Македонијa, дека навистина Грција го прекрши член 11 од Привремената спогодба, сега дефинитивно има повеќе моментум за преговорите. Тоа може да се види и во сигналите од македонската страна, особено во последните 6-7 недели се доста позитивни, дека Македoнија навистина е коструктивната страна, но проблемот е што Грција има транзициска влада, која не може да донесува кој знае какви големи одлуки. Позитивно е тоа што се сретнуваат и што се даваат шанси за решавање на спорот, но не гледaме дека нешто ќе се случи на преговорите што ќе се случуваат на 16-ти и 17-ти. Ставот на нашата организација од секогаш бил дека не треба да се преговара и особено пресудата во Хаг даде причина повеќе да не преговараме . If UMD chooses to even engage with the public that it pretends to represent it is most likely to reply that Mr Koloski was simply stating a fact. That may have been semi-plausible, had he not made a value statement as to the desirability and appropriateness of the negotiations, judging Macedonia’s willingness to negotiate as ‘constructive’ and ‘positive’. UMD, and Mr Koloski in particular, have been known to argue that the United Nations Security Council has passed resolutions requiring Macedonia to negotiate its name in an attempt to deflect criticism of their support for the Interim Accord. However, this is a disingenuous and fallacious argument. The UN Security Council has indeed passed two resolutions (817 and 845) calling on Macedonia and Greece to resolve the name dispute, but what validity do these resolutions actually hold? The United Nations is nothing more than an international club, of which there are many – the United Nations just happens to have many more members than the others. The United Nations claims that its Charter and its Security Council Resolutions form a body of law, known as ‘international law’. This is highly debatable, as the United Nations holds no democratically delegated authority to make any laws, let alone those that presume to govern all of humanity. However, even if what the United Nations claims to be ‘international law’ is legitimate and valid, no law can override inalienable human rights. These Security Council resolutions do exactly that, which automatically makes them illegitimate and invalid. Secondly, Mr Koloski would have us believe that Macedonia should implement the resolutions of a club which does not even respect our national sovereignty, including the right to name our own state. These SC Resolutions not only violate our inalienable human rights, but they violate the United Nation’s own Charter. Another disingenuous argument from UMD attempting to convince us that Macedonia has to negotiate, with the understanding that it has to change its name. All the while, they claim they do not support the negotiations. The interview continues with Mr Koloski providing his views on the ICJ’s ruling and its effect on NATO membership. Mr Koloski states that the ICJ case has given Macedonia a legal basis with which to pressure Greece into implementing the Interim Accord. Here, he openly argues that Greece should implement the Accord and that Macedonia has the legal basis with which to force it to do so! Mr Koloski, in addition, forgets to mention under which name Macedonia would enter NATO – FYROM. All the while, he still claims that UMD does not support the Interim Accord. На самитот во Букурешт се донесе таа одлука од причина што Грција вети дека ќе стави вето на членството на Макеоднија во НАТО. Сега пресудата од Хаг дефинитвно дава адут на Америка и на НАТО-партнерите дека имаме правен изговор да извршиме некаков притисок кон Грција за да таа го спроведе тоа што го потпишала во 1995-та година, каде што ветува дека нема да ја блокира Македонија. Е, сега тоа зависи и од политичката волја на Америка и на НАТО партнерите. Mr Koloski continues the interview with the preconceived position that the Interim Accord is both legitimate and valid. Here are some further quotes: РСЕ: Вие сте претседател на Обединетата македонска дијаспора. Македонската лоби група брои 7 члена, грчката 139, сметате ли дека Македонија со овој распоред на силите во Конгресот има шанси да влијае врз администрацијата на Обама? Колоски:Видете, јас не би го гледал тоа така, поради тоа што групата е група на конгресмени кои цврсто ќе ја подржуваат Македонија без разлика на која тема. Е сега да дадам споредба, во ноември 2010-та година, 19 конгресмени и 4 сенатори испратија писмо до Обама за подршка на Македонија, а истата година само 32 конгресмени испратија писмо до Обама поддржувајќи ја грчката страна, така што, ако го споредуваме тоа, македонското лоби е доволно цврсто за да изврши некаков притисок, но проблемот е што во 2010-та не беше моментот, не ја имавме пресудата од Хаг и мислам дека сега ќе добиеме многу повеќе поддршка, но треба активно лобирање од страна на дијаспората и од страна на дипломатскиот кор на Македонија во сите места. It does beg the question, what exactly is Mr Koloski lobbying for? The answer is quite obvious – implementation of the Interim Accord and Macedonia’s accession into NATO as FYROM. __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

01-24-2012, 07:43 AM	#6246
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,510	Meto's latest interview (again with the ventilator): Meto Koloski - United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) - Washington DC, USA - YouTube I've noticed that Meto, in many of his speeches and interviews, uses a line that basically says our forefathers risked, and some gave, their lives for Macedonia. I listen to him say that with a very heavy heart. We are not asking Meto to do anything of the sort - risk his life - all we ask of him is to take a peaceful and principled stand and use our freely chosen symbol, not the ventilator that was imposed on Macedonia by the Greek Government. Article 7, Paragraph 2 of the Interim Accord: Upon entry into force of this Interim Accord, the Party of the Second Part [Macedonia] shall cease to use in any way the symbol in all its forms displayed on its national flag prior to such entry into force. Why, Meto, are you unwilling to undertake such a simple but powerful act of freedom - to refrain from accepting Greek chauvinism? __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

01-17-2012, 06:56 AM	#6244
George S. Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 10,116	the und don't know what it;s doing where are the goals.I heard them say no to the name negotietions how have the progressed we hear nothing & really have they really made any impact probably not. There is no real transparency.Meto still has not answered rtg's questions.These are pertinent put up or shut up questions.So we assume that they got something to hide & deliberately avoid our questioning.Umd is also becoming more & more irrelevant simply by it's own doing as time rolls on.

01-24-2012, 09:13 AM	#6247
George S. Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 10,116	When all is said & done despite what they say they are apologetics & really they aren't for real representation of the diaspora's views.They seem to be a willing participant of the macedonian govt in whatever it does.No matter how much anti macedonian one gets they seem to be supporting our real enemies.The interim accord is proof enough that the umd is well & truly behind the times when it actually supports it's principles.

02-05-2012, 02:59 PM	#6249
George S. Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 10,116	mk people can't be gullible that much they'll soon catch on that they are being fleeced.

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