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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-19-2010, 06:37 PM   #2601
indigen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vodenka View Post
If you do not like UMD you can say your opinion about them, criticize them for their work, declare that they do not represent you but only their members and followers, etc. but you cannot pretend to make them stop existing.
It is only your opinion or also of some few others that UMD is an anti-macedonian organization, not everybody's. No organization is in the position to represent all the Diaspora or all the Macedonians, this is clear.
The "UMD" ARE a RAMKOVIST support group and thus are, and should be, the political enemy of all patriotic Macedonians and their organisations. My personal view is that they should be EXCOMMUNICATED from Macedonian Diaspora activities and starved of any support, especially financial.

You can read more about how the REAL MACEDONIAN DIASPORA feels about the TREASONOUS "Framework Agreement" ("Ramkoven dogovor") at following link: http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1728

Lastly, it is "UMD" and its supporters that have invaded this forum and bombarded (spammed, imo) the discussion section of the MTO Forums and thus why one sees so much "attention" attached to this Ramkovist trash, IMO.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:41 PM   #2602
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
A vote for the EU is a vote for the framework agreement. In fact it is even worse than the framework agreement on its own in my opinion. And that is saying something.
+1

"UMD" = Ramkovist Support Group - Ramkovisti!
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:24 PM   #2603
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Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
UMD has never defended the term 'FYROM.' UMD does not support the name "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" and definitely does not support acronyms. This is ridiculous. The name of Macedonia is Republic of Macedonia.
Thats a LIE !

Read your own statements.

Last edited by Pelister; 02-19-2010 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:37 PM   #2604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleksandrov View Post
I didn't want this to turn into just another UMD-bashing thread. I was hoping the focus would be kept on UMD's policy on the Ohrid Framework Agreement, which not only appeases and thereby encourages racist violence or ongoing threats of racist violence by Albanian extremists, but constitutes a foundation for ethnic segregation and ultimate disintegration of the Macedonian state, with yet more parts of Macedonia being subjected to ethnic cleansing and racist repression.

Alexandrov,

If there wasn't any evidence CONTRADICTING UMD's public announcements and public statements, there wouldn't be an issue.

Thread 101#

Here we have UMD saying "UMD does not support the term FYROM".

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...&postcount=101

Thread 103#

And yet here we have evidence of UMD SUPPORTING OUR ADMISSION BY THE TERM FYROM.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...&postcount=103


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandrov
Yet in a recent conversations with Meto in Sydney, he indicated that the UMD does not have a policy on the Framework Agreement.
So how do we account for the blatant contradictions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandrov
If that is the case, I encourage the UMD to remove the public statement in question from its website and to consider adopting a policy that recognizes the Framework Agreement and all subsequent legislation and policies that are inspired by it as an ongoing process that poses the greatest danger to the survival of the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign home of the Macedonian people and to the rights and prosperity of its non-Albanian citizens.
If that is the case, I do to.

Given all of their contradictions, how will you know that they are actually telling the truth this time?

If there were a list of core non-negotiables at the top of the that organizations charter, I would perhaps feel differently, but people have to resign before UMD will actually change its policies.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:45 PM   #2605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigen
Lastly, it is "UMD" and its supporters that have invaded this forum and bombarded (spammed, imo) the discussion section of the MTO Forums and thus why one sees so much "attention" attached to this Ramkovist trash, IMO.
I agree, its UMD supporters and backer have been spamming more than any others here. But I don't think Alexandrov see's it that way.

Isn't it interesting how "the critics" of UMD are being shunted on this forum (in almost precisely the same way they were at Maknews) and how it has been suggested that "the critics" are solely responsible for the UMD threads and their content. What could be more unbalanced that that.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:55 PM   #2606
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Pelister, I don't think you have read Aleksandrov's comments correctly.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:00 PM   #2607
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I think what the UMD needs to understand is they are a young organisation and by that they are bound to trip over their own tongues.

Heck even the more seasoned campaigners do that occasionally.

UMD, rather than being "just another" group trying to beat its own drum, you need to make closer ties with other Macedonian organisations.

Macedonian NGO's MUST find a way to work together.

We all have strong attributes which can contribute to bettering our cause. How do we best utilise these attributes without making someone they've been used and spat out on the scrap heap.

This is where we all need to look at how we can change the current state of Macedonian affairs.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:00 PM   #2608
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Pelister, I don't think you have read Aleksandrov's comments correctly.
You may well be right RTG - you usually are. I'll go back and have another read.

I think Alexandrov is right that some threads have been hijacked, although I have to stress that this has not been a deliberate thing or intentional, and his point doesn't consider the fact that most of the posts are being made by Buktop and other UMD supporters.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:05 PM   #2609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikail View Post
I think what the UMD needs to understand is they are a young organisation and by that they are bound to trip over their own tongues.

Heck even the more seasoned campaigners do that occasionally.

UMD, rather than being "just another" group trying to beat its own drum, you need to make closer ties with other Macedonian organisations.

Macedonian NGO's MUST find a way to work together.

We all have strong attributes which can contribute to bettering our cause. How do we best utilise these attributes without making someone they've been used and spat out on the scrap heap.

This is where we all need to look at how we can change the current state of Macedonian affairs.
Wagging tongues?

You mean "Macedonia has to modify its name" !! President of UMD ...etc.etc.

That's more than a wagging tongue.

Its not only a policy position of UMD, but also the personal opinion of Meto himself.

These are not mistakes. They are deliberately, carefully considered policy and strategy positions of the UMD organization. All we have now are contradictions.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:15 PM   #2610
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Mikail i think your attitude is reasonable on the surface. though things seem to have gone past that now. umd have made some terribly naive and silly statements. worse they could not bring themselves to admit their errors and so too much trust has been lost. some older irresponsible people put the whole weight of the world on their young shoulders and they have not been able to cope. they ignored the older wiser teams and aggressively set themselves against them, dividing communities in the process and presenting themselves in their own advertising as THE LEADING macedonian diaspora organisation. for all this they are now paying a price and it will be hard for umd to try to restore their respectabilty. it looks like pelister is right.

Last edited by Pavel; 02-19-2010 at 09:41 PM.
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