United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Buktop

How do you justify the patriot act? Is it in accordance with the constitution of the United States?Are authorization of indefinite detentions of immigrants; searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the FBI to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order; and the expanded access of law enforcement agencies to business records, including library and financial records in accordance with the US Constitution?

Buktop,

I think we finally agree on something. I don't justify the Patriot Act. In fact, I think the US Government acted beyond its constitutional authority with regards to that Act.

Our original question was "Does the Macedonian Government have the constitutional authority to negotiate with a foreign government, changes to the Macedonian constitution?". Do we now agree that it does not?

[Prolet]

it was a guarantee up until Buckovski and Kostov decided to blackmail the citizens and make empty promises that any reasonably intelligent person could see were impossible to accomplish.

Buktop, Hari Kostov and Vlado Buckovski are weak politicians, they done nothing in power while i commend Kostov for forming the Alfa Units and that was it but this was while he was the Interior Minister not Prime Minister. I agree that people where manipulated, they put all the villages in with the Main Cities to make them the same Municipalities, Struga is in the wost situation it has Villages that a ages away from Struga that have nothing to do with Struga mainly in the mountains infested with Albanians, it really was a shame and SDSM fucked up big time with the divisions.

Risto, Again i point out that weather we join Nato/EU or not we will still be recognized under FYROM, its nothing different other then Greece loosing a leg to stand on when it comes to their threats and veto blackmails in these organizations.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Buktop

The diaspora organizations have NO say in the power that is bestowed upon a government, especially when the Macedonian constitution contains clauses that allow the government to negotiate without the consent of the citizens.

Originally Posted by Buktop

Macedonia definitely paid with sovereignty, but the only people we can blame are ourselves for letting it happen when we had a perfect opportunity to stop it. Governments should fear their citizens, the citizens shouldn't fear their governments.

What do you mean by these two statements Buktop...?

When it comes to our identity and sovereignty, I don't believe that there should be any distinction between the diaspora or the Macedonians in the Republic, we all hold equal weight as Macedonians.

In a previous post Risto The Great highlighted the fact that greek independence was formulated outside of modern greece by people of diverse ethnic background, surely as Macedonians whether we are in the Republic or the diaspora we have that same ability.

On one hand you apologise for the diaspora and the Macedonian citizens for not having a voice when it comes to constitutional matters but on the other hand you make statements advocating the power of the people against the governments...WTF is that all about?

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Prolet

Risto, Again i point out that weather we join Nato/EU or not we will still be recognized under FYROM, its nothing different other then Greece loosing a leg to stand on when it comes to their threats and veto blackmails in these organizations.

So lets enter EU under "fyrom" since we are recognised under "fyrom" in the UN and FIFA and so on. Well two wrongs don't make a right Prolet. How long do we go on accepting This insulting plastic name. we ither fight for name recognition or we don't. By entering another club with the name "FYROM" is diging a deeper hole for us which will make it harder to get out. Not a wise move accepting something that you are fighting against.

So its out of we stand your ground from now on, or just drop our pants and hope the other is using protection.

[Prolet]

Bill, I dont blame you for what you are stating, however even if we dont join Nato and EU do you think its going to make any difference?? We have to leave every organization from UN to every Culture,Sporting,Environmental etc we are registered in dozens of Organizations under FYROM even in EU and Nato Lead organizations so we have nothing more to loose other then the Greeks running out of options to blackmail us.

Believe me the Greeks will never allow us to join the EU and Nato even under FYROM, keep in mind that this is a Temporary name even though its been for 20 years its not a permanent name which means we can still change it however Greece will not be in power to Veto us there is a massive difference here. The ICJ case will only be used to rip up the Interim Accord which is extremely important and once that document is whipped out then there is no FYROM anymore and we can then push the fight to the UN and make sure that the UN enforces its own laws in order for us to be registered there as Republic of Macedonia. Once that happens this name will stay in every organization.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Prolet

Bill, I dont blame you for what you are stating, however even if we dont join Nato and EU do you think its going to make any difference?? We have to leave every organization from UN to every Culture,Sporting,Environmental etc we are registered in dozens of Organizations under FYROM even in EU and Nato Lead organizations so we have nothing more to loose other then the Greeks running out of options to blackmail us.

Believe me the Greeks will never allow us to join the EU and Nato even under FYROM, keep in mind that this is a Temporary name even though its been for 20 years its not a permanent name which means we can still change it however Greece will not be in power to Veto us there is a massive difference here. The ICJ case will only be used to rip up the Interim Accord which is extremely important and once that document is whipped out then there is no FYROM anymore and we can then push the fight to the UN and make sure that the UN enforces its own laws in order for us to be registered there as Republic of Macedonia. Once that happens this name will stay in every organization.

My word its going to make a difference prolet.

A) we don't add to the expansion of the Name FYROM
B) we show that we also Draw a red line
C) we concentrate then solely on the UN and then other organisations such as Culture,Sporting,Environmental etc, will have to follow.
D) we will take away the blackmail option from Greece if that is an issue.


Then why whaist our time and energy, again lets work on UN


you call it "Temporary", Temporary should have a time limit. 20 years have gone by as you sugested tells me the word should be now as "Indefinate" which could then become Permanent. Especialy if we keep on buckling.


Smell the coffee Prolet, ICJ ruling will be useless. Especialy in the eyes of EU. It does not have the power to do jack shit in the EU level. Once we enter EU under FYROM, EU would not want to step on Greece's toes or disturb the hornets nest again. Not ICJ not Jesus Christ if he was to come back can force EU. So its wise to work on UN accepting Macedonia, then work on EU.

[Prolet]

There is always that option too when you look at it, it shouldnt be excluded either.

[osiris]

lets not forget the eu is changing all the time its not as attaractive and oganisation of rich nations anymore its a pot pouri of failed nations and nations so far in debt they cant help themselves let alone anyone else.

no more compromises no more razbranost we are makedontsi nishto drugo.

[Prolet]

That too Osiris, you make a good point no doubt.

There is nothing worse then for us to change our name now, we dont need to be in EU and Nato so navednati glavi.

[Rogi]

The original question of this discussion was:

Does the Macedonian Government have the constitutional authority to negotiate with a foreign government, changes to the Macedonian constitution?

I have a question in relation to this...

In the event that the Republic of Macedonia (not fYROM or any other country with any other name) joined the European Union, would membership to the European Union require changes to the Macedonian Constitution?

For example, the Constitution says the Macedonian currency is the Macedonian Denar, if Macedonia joined the Eurozone, it would require a change to the Constitution, would it not?

So, in this case, would that mean that the Macedonian Government would, at that point, be 'negotiating' or discussing changes to the Macedonian Constitution, with Foreign Governments?