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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-12-2010, 03:04 AM   #1101
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
This does not actually suggest the AMHRC support the Accord. It does point out something both Governments had (apparently) signed up to.
Well then for AMHRC they are simply mentioning that it was signed, but with UMD it means that they support it? Double standards if ever I saw them.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:10 AM   #1102
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You don´t need the greeks,bulgarians,serbians or albanians to destroy you. You are doing a great job of that yourselfs.
Sad to see. Both here and on Maknews.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:15 AM   #1103
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It is sad Zrinski, but I think in many respects it is a necessity, too many times Macedonians have put their blind faith in various groups without questioning the intent of their actions and statements, way too many times. I think it is sad that there is personal animosity between some people, I think it is sad that certain people (not you) wish to involve themselves in these conversations just for the sake of playing 'devils advocate', and I think it is most sad when we have people making errors in judgement and then blatantly denying that these errors ever took place.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:16 AM   #1104
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I have been a financial member of the AMHRC for several years.

At the time of the capitulation to the Framework Agreement, the AMHRC wrote directly to every single Macedonian parliamentarian demanding they immediately denounce and withdraw from such an appalling imposition.

As for the so-called Interim Accord, the AMHRC has on numerous occasions made public statements calling for the immediate end to the ‘so-called name talks’. The AMHRC has never to my knowledge supported the so-called Accord. Moreover, unlike others, they have never advocated or even contemplated name changes.

T-K, now that you have brought up the AMHRC’s response to Prof. Miller, I would encourage you (and others) to read it its entirety and in context. I don’t see any other organisation capable of producing such a clinical response to a Greek sycophant like Miller.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:26 AM   #1105
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
You call a rant about constitutional mandate an answer? You haven't even quoted the relevant constitutional articles.

You are a master of evasion, I have to hand it to you. I don't understand Vangelovski, why is it so hard for someone like you to answer 3 simple questions?



In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for?
Relevant constitutional articles? I think that statement says it all.

Buktop, I'm not going to waste my time on you again - read and understand what I've posted. Until you do that and come up with a sensible response, I've got better things to do. If it helps you, where I have written "government", replace it with "parliament".

P.S. Your an American history "expert" - maybe you should look at what the founding fathers thought about unlimited state power and how that goes with YOUR theory of consent.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:27 AM   #1106
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Yes

and as stated recently by UMD

Just goes to show you the many misconceptions that exist on the forum.

Oh and I wonder why Vangelovski neglected to mention any of this?
Again, read and understand my posts, I left before UMD bylaws were finalised and adopted. A few days ago you were arguing that UMD had too little members who were far too geographically spread out to hold elections. Now that your master has contradicted you, you've changed your tune.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:43 AM   #1107
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TajnataKniga,

I have read the AMHRC response to Prof. Miller quite thoroughly, and many times. What you quoted, and very much out of context, is a statement of fact and does not read as an endorsement.

I have also followed the actions of the AMHRC for a very long time and they have consistently remained the most pro-active organisation against the Interim Accord and in support of the Macedonian cause (on the definition we all agree on), with many actions including the one state above by Grotius.

Now, it must be said, in a similar manner to what TajnataKniga has done above, a great many, albeit not all, of the UMD press releases and statements have also been taken out of context.

That said, there seems to be a growing 'mob' mentality against UMD and so the actual meaning behind some of UMD's statements is ignored, despite some being similar statements of fact.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:03 AM   #1108
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Buktop, I don't agree with the animosity in some of the posts, from both ends, it is an unfortunate part of this discussion, and I am not denying that there is bad blood between individuals from both sides of the argument.

You have not earned disrespect for simply supporting the UMD, and to say that the entire forum disrespects you is not true. Remember one of your first posts here which was directed at myself was something like "i don't think you're fucking entitled to a response by UMD", or something to that effect. I am an administrator here but I don't fall into the category of people who disrespect you, and this is despite our earlier falling out at Maknews. Your voice on this issue is as welcome as any other member of the MTO, but being involved in this discussion both here and at Maknews for an even longer period, you are well aware of other sentiments that are not alligned with yours.

I said it before and I will repeat, if Meto had just acknowledged his past errors (such as the ZMR interview) and at least provided some sort of reasoning as to what lead him to make such an error (which it clearly was), I, and I am sure many others too, would have taken a different view on this matter.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:24 AM   #1109
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Originally Posted by Rogi View Post
TajnataKniga,

I have read the AMHRC response to Prof. Miller quite thoroughly, and many times. What you quoted, and very much out of context, is a statement of fact and does not read as an endorsement.

I have also followed the actions of the AMHRC for a very long time and they have consistently remained the most pro-active organisation against the Interim Accord and in support of the Macedonian cause (on the definition we all agree on), with many actions including the one state above by Grotius.

Now, it must be said, in a similar manner to what TajnataKniga has done above, a great many, albeit not all, of the UMD press releases and statements have also been taken out of context.

That said, there seems to be a growing 'mob' mentality against UMD and so the actual meaning behind some of UMD's statements is ignored, despite some being similar statements of fact.
Rogi, i think the problem with the UMD and its core group of internet supporters is this perception that there's an 'agenda' against UMD or as you've described... "a growing mob mentality against UMD", unfortunately its a situation that has been building since Maknews attacked the Australian Macedonian diaspora...Now its a case of the Aussie diaspora fighting back...

Maknews was warned and UMD was warned to distance themselves from Lubi's personal issues with Australian Macedonians but neither bothered to listen, sadly perhaps another sign of their joint arrogance and contempt.

The most disappointing thing about this issue is the failure of UMD and some of their most vocal supporters understanding the real issues at play, that perhaps UMD aren't the greatest organization of its type in the World, perhaps UMD can do things a shitload better and perhaps UMD is somewhat out of touch with the true feelings of the diaspora but sadly the worst thing is that UMD don't see any of this, the only thing UMD is seeing are shadowy figures and hearing mysterious voices that they've packaged as an "agenda"...
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:37 AM   #1110
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SoM, I truly understand where your criticism's come from, and I agree with almost all of your suggestions in regards to the UMD dispute, but just read some of the posts made by Pelister, Vangelovski and Phoenix. They are outright assault's with no intention of being constructive. You yourself have called on Pelister several times to provide proof of his allegations and yet he has not, Rogi has addressed Pelisters accusations ad-nauseum.

Simply because I support the actions UMD have taken to help Macedonians and Macedonia I have earned the disrespect of the entire forum. I am not here to attack, but to try and draw attention to the huge misconceptions that seem to be flying around, and I am here to offer a different opinion when concerning UMD.
Buktop, you're a little American arse licker, that's why you're not respected...you carried on like a goose in your exchange with Jankovska about the Macedonian troops and I won't even start with your previous tito worship on Maknews...what respect do you "deserve" dosaden eden...

Your UMD support has nothing to do with it...
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