United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Bratot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2855

    That's why we are both here... to discuss and to inform eachother, this is very unique posibility to connect with the Macedonians from all sides and to combine our knowledge and give bigger input for our cause.

    I agree with your post and I wanted to point out the changeable position of our politicians.

    Since 3-4 years ago the position of the nowadays opposition was identical as nowadays government you know what to expect.
    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

    Comment

    • Silver
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 85

      Originally posted by vodenka View Post
      The politicians in Macedonia are those who have the possibility to change the name of the Republic, not UMD, whatever its opinion may be about it. So, all the discussion in the forum is just for criticism about UMD and its work and not for the name issue and the political responsabilities. If some of you do not agree with what UMD is doing, do not follow or support it. You cannot burden the organization for responsabilities which are not its own.
      Thanks for the lecture. But for whatever reason you're mixing it up to deflect the fact that we are not laying the resposnibility for the name issue on UMD. You're being dishonest for saying that.

      We are questioning the stance and policy of an organization who claims to represent the entire Macedonian Diaspora. I for one did not give them that privilegde nor did anyone else I know. If I don't support them should I leave them to continually support anti-macedonian organizations and negotiations on my behalf without saying anything?

      That's what the discussions are for. If you're happier at the other forum and the use of the delete button than I suggest you stay there. Don't insult everyone's intellegence like other UMD cheerleaders try to do.

      Comment

      • Pavel
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 155

        Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
        Again, misinterpretations. UMD's President in Adelaide did not say it is because UMD that the U.S. recognizes Macedonia. What he said was that as a result of Macedonians in America throughout the last century who have been fighting for support and recognition, and organizations like UMD. UMD does not claim exclusivity, and this success was a combination of efforts of all Macedonian-Americans.
        Originally posted by Pavel View Post
        ha ha ha i got home just in time to catch you twisting things again. i saw it and heard it. he said its thanks to organisations like umd that U.S. recognises macedonia. you are making yourself look silly. umd was hardly formed when bush recognised macedonia and it had nothing to do with umd.
        is this how you tell the truth? by claiming things that had nothing to do with you? so you can impress naive people into donating money to you? everyone knows that it was a shift in US policy in eastern Europe that drove this and not umd.

        Comment

        • vodenka
          Member
          • Mar 2009
          • 297

          Originally posted by Silver View Post
          Thanks for the lecture. But for whatever reason you're mixing it up to deflect the fact that we are not laying the resposnibility for the name issue on UMD. You're being dishonest for saying that.

          We are questioning the stance and policy of an organization who claims to represent the entire Macedonian Diaspora. I for one did not give them that privilegde nor did anyone else I know. If I don't support them should I leave them to continually support anti-macedonian organizations and negotiations on my behalf without saying anything?

          That's what the discussions are for. If you're happier at the other forum and the use of the delete button than I suggest you stay there. Don't insult everyone's intellegence like other UMD cheerleaders try to do.
          If you do not like UMD you can say your opinion about them, criticize them for their work, declare that they do not represent you but only their members and followers, etc. but you cannot pretend to make them stop existing.
          It is only your opinion or also of some few others that UMD is an anti-macedonian organization, not everybody's. No organization is in the position to represent all the Diaspora or all the Macedonians, this is clear.

          Comment

          • indigen
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 1558

            Originally posted by Rogi View Post
            The word revolution springs to mind.

            If they change the name, not only are they not fit to Govern Macedonia and the Macedonian people, but they are the enemies of the Macedonian people and the Macedonian identity.
            Rogi, if you read between the lines of what the "Macedonian" government representatives (in particular Gruevski, Miloshoski and Ivanov) are, and have been, saying and couple that with similar messages coming from all pro government media in Mk, it is more than clear that a name change has been agreed upon and they are now only resisting (negotiating) terminology that Greeks want to apply on Macedonian language and people. Thus a state name change is a done deal and only thing holding back its implementation is Greek insistence, at this stage, on scale of application.

            Since Government of RM is RAMKOVIST, are you saying they are FIT to govern and shoud have the support of Macedonian diaspora or Macedonians in general? Also, should Ramkovisti not be the enemies of Macedonian people and Macedonian identity?

            IME, prevention is better than trying to find a cure after the DEADLY DISEASE has INFECTED the Macedonian body and time for action is long OVERDUE and WAITING for the imminent official proclamation is CRIMINAL PATRIOTIC NEGLIGENCE. The "Framework Agreement" is a TERMINAL CANCER infecting the Macedonian body (state sovereignty and national identity) and as a result its immune system is much weakened and thus prone to further serious infections - name and identity change.

            Comment

            • indigen
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 1558

              Originally posted by vodenka View Post
              If you do not like UMD you can say your opinion about them, criticize them for their work, declare that they do not represent you but only their members and followers, etc. but you cannot pretend to make them stop existing.
              It is only your opinion or also of some few others that UMD is an anti-macedonian organization, not everybody's. No organization is in the position to represent all the Diaspora or all the Macedonians, this is clear.
              The "UMD" ARE a RAMKOVIST support group and thus are, and should be, the political enemy of all patriotic Macedonians and their organisations. My personal view is that they should be EXCOMMUNICATED from Macedonian Diaspora activities and starved of any support, especially financial.

              You can read more about how the REAL MACEDONIAN DIASPORA feels about the TREASONOUS "Framework Agreement" ("Ramkoven dogovor") at following link: http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1728

              Lastly, it is "UMD" and its supporters that have invaded this forum and bombarded (spammed, imo) the discussion section of the MTO Forums and thus why one sees so much "attention" attached to this Ramkovist trash, IMO.

              Comment

              • indigen
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 1558

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                A vote for the EU is a vote for the framework agreement. In fact it is even worse than the framework agreement on its own in my opinion. And that is saying something.
                +1

                "UMD" = Ramkovist Support Group - Ramkovisti!

                Comment

                • Pelister
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2742

                  Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
                  UMD has never defended the term 'FYROM.' UMD does not support the name "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" and definitely does not support acronyms. This is ridiculous. The name of Macedonia is Republic of Macedonia.
                  Thats a LIE !

                  Read your own statements.
                  Last edited by Pelister; 02-19-2010, 08:37 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    Originally posted by aleksandrov View Post
                    I didn't want this to turn into just another UMD-bashing thread. I was hoping the focus would be kept on UMD's policy on the Ohrid Framework Agreement, which not only appeases and thereby encourages racist violence or ongoing threats of racist violence by Albanian extremists, but constitutes a foundation for ethnic segregation and ultimate disintegration of the Macedonian state, with yet more parts of Macedonia being subjected to ethnic cleansing and racist repression.

                    Alexandrov,

                    If there wasn't any evidence CONTRADICTING UMD's public announcements and public statements, there wouldn't be an issue.

                    Thread 101#

                    Here we have UMD saying "UMD does not support the term FYROM".

                    I don't like UMD's politics, I've made no secret of that. A number of things need to be raised about their politics, and where they stand in relation to Macedonian politics. Some of their members supported a name change for NATO membership, even though the negotations were so heavily one sided in favor of the Greeks, who


                    Thread 103#

                    And yet here we have evidence of UMD SUPPORTING OUR ADMISSION BY THE TERM FYROM.

                    I don't like UMD's politics, I've made no secret of that. A number of things need to be raised about their politics, and where they stand in relation to Macedonian politics. Some of their members supported a name change for NATO membership, even though the negotations were so heavily one sided in favor of the Greeks, who



                    Originally posted by Alexandrov
                    Yet in a recent conversations with Meto in Sydney, he indicated that the UMD does not have a policy on the Framework Agreement.
                    So how do we account for the blatant contradictions?

                    Originally posted by Alexandrov
                    If that is the case, I encourage the UMD to remove the public statement in question from its website and to consider adopting a policy that recognizes the Framework Agreement and all subsequent legislation and policies that are inspired by it as an ongoing process that poses the greatest danger to the survival of the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign home of the Macedonian people and to the rights and prosperity of its non-Albanian citizens.
                    If that is the case, I do to.

                    Given all of their contradictions, how will you know that they are actually telling the truth this time?

                    If there were a list of core non-negotiables at the top of the that organizations charter, I would perhaps feel differently, but people have to resign before UMD will actually change its policies.

                    Comment

                    • Pelister
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2742

                      Originally posted by Indigen
                      Lastly, it is "UMD" and its supporters that have invaded this forum and bombarded (spammed, imo) the discussion section of the MTO Forums and thus why one sees so much "attention" attached to this Ramkovist trash, IMO.
                      I agree, its UMD supporters and backer have been spamming more than any others here. But I don't think Alexandrov see's it that way.

                      Isn't it interesting how "the critics" of UMD are being shunted on this forum (in almost precisely the same way they were at Maknews) and how it has been suggested that "the critics" are solely responsible for the UMD threads and their content. What could be more unbalanced that that.

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15658

                        Pelister, I don't think you have read Aleksandrov's comments correctly.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • Mikail
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1338

                          I think what the UMD needs to understand is they are a young organisation and by that they are bound to trip over their own tongues.

                          Heck even the more seasoned campaigners do that occasionally.

                          UMD, rather than being "just another" group trying to beat its own drum, you need to make closer ties with other Macedonian organisations.

                          Macedonian NGO's MUST find a way to work together.

                          We all have strong attributes which can contribute to bettering our cause. How do we best utilise these attributes without making someone they've been used and spat out on the scrap heap.

                          This is where we all need to look at how we can change the current state of Macedonian affairs.
                          From the village of P’pezhani, Tashko Popov, Dimitar Popov-Skenderov and Todor Trpenov were beaten and sentenced to 12 years prison. Pavle Mevchev and Atanas Popov from Vrbeni and Boreshnica joined them in early 1927, they were soon after transferred to Kozhani and executed. As they were leaving Lerin they were heard to shout "With our death, Macedonia will not be lost. Our blood will run, but other Macedonians will rise from it"

                          Comment

                          • Pelister
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2742

                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            Pelister, I don't think you have read Aleksandrov's comments correctly.
                            You may well be right RTG - you usually are. I'll go back and have another read.

                            I think Alexandrov is right that some threads have been hijacked, although I have to stress that this has not been a deliberate thing or intentional, and his point doesn't consider the fact that most of the posts are being made by Buktop and other UMD supporters.

                            Comment

                            • Pelister
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2742

                              Originally posted by Mikail View Post
                              I think what the UMD needs to understand is they are a young organisation and by that they are bound to trip over their own tongues.

                              Heck even the more seasoned campaigners do that occasionally.

                              UMD, rather than being "just another" group trying to beat its own drum, you need to make closer ties with other Macedonian organisations.

                              Macedonian NGO's MUST find a way to work together.

                              We all have strong attributes which can contribute to bettering our cause. How do we best utilise these attributes without making someone they've been used and spat out on the scrap heap.

                              This is where we all need to look at how we can change the current state of Macedonian affairs.
                              Wagging tongues?

                              You mean "Macedonia has to modify its name" !! President of UMD ...etc.etc.

                              That's more than a wagging tongue.

                              Its not only a policy position of UMD, but also the personal opinion of Meto himself.

                              These are not mistakes. They are deliberately, carefully considered policy and strategy positions of the UMD organization. All we have now are contradictions.

                              Comment

                              • Pavel
                                Member
                                • Oct 2009
                                • 155

                                Mikail i think your attitude is reasonable on the surface. though things seem to have gone past that now. umd have made some terribly naive and silly statements. worse they could not bring themselves to admit their errors and so too much trust has been lost. some older irresponsible people put the whole weight of the world on their young shoulders and they have not been able to cope. they ignored the older wiser teams and aggressively set themselves against them, dividing communities in the process and presenting themselves in their own advertising as THE LEADING macedonian diaspora organisation. for all this they are now paying a price and it will be hard for umd to try to restore their respectabilty. it looks like pelister is right.
                                Last edited by Pavel; 02-19-2010, 09:41 PM.

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