United Macedonia Diaspora

[George S.]

I wonder how many parties don't favour joinning the eu because it involves a name change.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Originally Posted by George S.

I wonder how many parties don't favour joinning the eu because it involves a name change.

Sadly, they all favor joining this hell called the EU.

[rujnovino]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

For example, there is no way one should be able to reconcile the above concepts with that of renaming Macedonia to Democratic Republic of Macedonia ... but UMetoD did exactly that. Nor should we read about UMetoD agreeing on a logic that suggests Macedonia needs to pull its head in and get to the negotiating table.

I don't feel that Meto = UMD, or that everything you accuse the guy of is somehow UMD "policy". The organization has repeatedly made it clear that they are against the name negotiations. I visited their conference last year in Toronto, and I met lots of great folks from different places, and different walks of life. It was a great experience for any Macedonian, and I would like to go again. (Not sure if I can make it this year, we'll see.) As a whole, I see the organization doing a lot of positive things, and I like what I see. Also, I say exactly the same thing for AMHRC, which produces a magazine that I like to read. Here in Canada, we have the group United Macedonians, who hold a large picnic on Ilinden every summer, that I always go to with my family. There are lots of groups, lots of events, and we have a vibrant community. I don't think it's wise to be so ethusiastic about any group's successes or be so bloody-minded about any group's shortcomings, real or imagined.

I support any Macedonian group that enunciates its Macedonian Cause whose principles are aligned with how we have done it here on the MTO. As an example, the UMD has not done this.

Well, the MTO is an interesting forum, a useful source of knowledge, but some of the "principles" being espoused don't support the Macedonian Cause, in my opinion. I think there are too many hotheads, basically. Backstabbing is not a principle, and its not patriotic either.

You have not called me out on that because you are yet to prove this is not one the bleakest times for the Macedonian identity.

I don't want to go over all this again with you, but the original statement was "the bleakest time in Macedonian history", and then you started backtracking, talking about "...since 1991", etc., modifying your argument. Better to keep some legitimacy, Risto, than make emotional overstatements like that. Those war years are a misery you don't seem to comprehend or appreciate, they don't compare to now, and it's a flippant, stupid type of comment that I hear from some of the MTO usual suspects on a regular basis.

On the issue of identity, I remember growing up, saying I'm Macedonian, and having people say "what's that?" or "So, you're Greek." Honestly, I find that doesn't happen anymore, I don't know about you... we've made that transition here in Canada, I don't know about Australia. I see a lot of Macedonian pride out there these days, and I think we've made great strides in strengthening our identity as a community in the wider world since 1991.

I was suggesting Macedonia look elsewhere and explore all options. Do you disagree or is it just the EU for you? Are you happy with the agreements Macedonia has already signed with the EU even though it is not even a member yet?

Of course they should explore options, but you made a naive statement about Chinese foreign aid, and I though you were really grasping at straws with that. As for the so-called "acquis communataire" standards, such as a functioning legal system, I think these are all positive things that will help the Republic's economy, which is SHEEPSHIT, right now. I don't think those reforms will lead to EU membership, and that's fine with me. But the legal system in Macedonia a catastrophe. The democratic process is a catastrophe. The economy is a catastrophe. We've had one president assassinated (Trajkovski) and another attempted assassination. The Republic has a lot of growing up to do.

FYROM and EU/NATO at any cost will always be an unpopular view here because it represents naivety and disrespect towards the sovereignty of the Macedonian nation.

Who ever said "fyrom and eu/nato at any cost"? That sounds made up.

I agree with you, it is childish and absolutely disgusting on another level. No big deal. He represents your belief system. Whatever it takes for EU/NATO entry. We are applying his own logic to his identity here. It is like something you do with lab rats.

bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. You can't discuss the issues, so you make stuff up about me, it's typical warrior-queen bullshit. Say what you want about the fyRoM guy, but I never said anything like that. When you say I did, it just makes you look like the Bozo.

Ultimately, many Macedonians have opinions about how our nation should move forward. Unfortunately, the compromised people running the country have done nothing for the Macedonian identity and the message from the Diaspora needs to be clear and consistent.

I agree that the Macedonian politicians are generally corrupt, and have generally failed, but I think the diaspora message is abundantly clear.

Like it used to be once upon a time (for real Macedonians).

If anything, I think the message from the diaspora is clearer now than ever before. The MPO is dead, the Serbomans are very few, the influence from Belgrade is dead, tie shto trgaat p Grchko are weaker and more disorganized than before. All good things.

Shame on people like you for introducing doubt into the minds of Macedonians.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean, Risto? You sound like MakKafana and the Queen, now Risto. I expected more from you.

When people say stupidities about Macedonian history, and when they portray Beijing as coming to the rescue, yes, I will doubt it. It's crap, that's why.

[makedonche]

rujnovino

how much longer?

[Vangelovski]

Rujnovino,

What exactly is it that you like about the UMD - be specific.

Also, which part, exactly, of MTO's definition of the cause do you not agree with? Be specific.

At the moment you're gut feelings are just a lot of BS.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by rujnovino

The organization has repeatedly made it clear that they are against the name negotiations

It has also repeatedly contradicted itself when making such statements. The most recent example was in mid-April, after the meeting with Nimitz. See text on link below:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...aspora&page=12

On the one hand they are asking Nimitz to cease the negotiations:

Делегација на Обединетата македонска дијаспора вчера на средбата со медијаторот Метју Нимиц, побарале преговорите за името веднаш да се прекинат.

On the other, they talk about Macedonia's 'commitment' to participate in the negotiations and complain about Greece rejecting many proposals (which were never acceptable to self-respecting Macedonians in the first place) and putting a veto on Macedonia's entry in NATO and the EU as 'fyrom':

И, додека Македонија демонстрира посветеност за учество во преговорите, Грција од друга страна, продолжува да отфрла многу предлози коишто и се претставени, а стави вето и на членството на Македонија во евроатлантските организации како НАТО и ЕУ.

The same veiled UMD garbage. What are they complaining about, the fact that Greece didn't accept 'fyrom' or RoM-Skopje? How do you read the above Rujno, I mean, how do you honestly read it minus the apologetic spin that the usual UMD lackeys like to put on it?

.....the MTO is an interesting forum, a useful source of knowledge, but some of the "principles" being espoused don't support the Macedonian Cause, in my opinion.

Our principles are defined in the Macedonian Cause. Let me know where your own thoughts deviate from that.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

The more this guy posts the more I think he's around 60-70 and not long ago an active member of the MPO and still has close ties to that anti Macedonian organization. Lets, make sure he's not their legal council (disclosure issues) because then we can turn up the heat and address specific MPO matters.

rujnovino, would most Macedonians in Toronto think of the MPO when they hear your last name? Yes or no?

[rujnovino]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

It has also repeatedly contradicted itself when making such statements......

Soldier, you are intentionally misinterpreting a statement of fact about what the government has done. The full press release is not only unequivocal about the delegation's anti-negotiation stance, but it importantly mentions the Aegean human rights aspect of the problem for good measure, which is bang on.

This is exactly what I mean - lots of hysterical bullshit and name-calling, but nothing to back it up.

[rujnovino]

Originally Posted by makedonche

rujnovino

how much longer?

If I wanted to have a retarded conversation, I would call MakKafana or Queen Julie.

Let me know when you have something intelligent to say, Makedonche

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by rujnovino

Soldier, you are intentionally misinterpreting a statement of fact about what the government has done. The full press release is not only unequivocal about the delegation's anti-negotiation stance, but it importantly mentions the Aegean human rights aspect of the problem for good measure, which is bang on.

This is exactly what I mean - lots of hysterical bullshit and name-calling, but nothing to back it up.

You're dishonestly reinterpreting what UMD has written in that Press Release. The statement is contradictory at best and a disaster at worst.

You still have not answered your contradiction in that you supposedly do not support the Framework Agreement and Interim Accord but do support UMD which publically supports those two agreements.