Saints Cyril and Methodius

[Onur]

I saw a thread here related with this. It`s also an interesting read;

Originally Posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas

After stumbling upon the Proto-Bulgarian script I noticed how similar some letters are to the Glagolitic alphabet:



So I did a comparison (I also compared it to Hebrew):



The only two letters I'm definitely sure Constantine created (or his students or brother) were the "I" and "S". These two when used as an abbreviation for Jesus/Исѹсъ, in Cyrillic they form ·ИС·, but in Glagolitic:



which is one of the symbols of Christianity and Jesus, the Fish or Ichthys, Classical Greek ΙΧΘΥC, abbreviation of "Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ" ("Iēsous Khristos Theou Huios, Sōtēr") = "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".

I'll do more research and compare Glagolitic to other scripts used around the time of Constantine since he being a polyglot and versed in many languages most probably had contact with. The Proto-Bulgar script might be the script that Constantine saw in Chersones and which are referred in his biography as the "Russian" letters.

The guy above here thinks that the Glagolitic alphabet might be related with Turkic runes too(as he calls as proto-Bulgarian script here).


As 9th century Bulgar scholar says;
"...At last, God, in his love for mankind, sent them St. Constantine the Philosopher, called Cyril, a learned and upright man, who composed for them thirty-eight letters, some(24 of them) similar to the Greek, but some(14 of them) different, suitable to express Slavic sounds..."

24 of the letters are similar to Greek but 14 of them was different. These different letters might be related with Turkic runes. If eastern Slavs was already using this script at their pagan era and if Cyril learned Turkic language in Crimea at 860 AD, then this theory should be highly possible. Ofc this is pretty much impossible to prove atm unless some medieval texts to be discovered in the future.

[Soldier of Macedon]

See my response to that guy, Onur, as I don't believe for a second that this is the case, and there has never been any such indication until relatively recently.

[The LION will ROAR]

An American magazine called Art and Archaeology published in 1921, talks about art in CzechoSlovakia. The author mentions the christening of the Czech Duke Borivoj in the year 874 by the MACEDONIAN apostles Cyril and Methodius.

[makedonche]

TLWR
Great find!

[Onur]

I posted some info in this thread about the script of slavs when they were pagans;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4276

The 9th century Bulgarian writer, Chernorizets Hrabar in his О писменех (An Account of Letters) briefly mentioned that, before the introduction of Christianity, Slavs used a system he had dubbed "strokes and incisions" or "tallies and sketches" in some translations (Old Church Slavonic: чръты и рѣзы);

"Being still pagans, the Slavs did not have their own letters, but read and communicated by means of tallies and sketches. After their baptism they were forced to use Roman and Greek letters in the transcription of their Slavic words but these were not suitable... At last, God, in his love for mankind, sent them St. Constantine the Philosopher, called Cyril, a learned and upright man, who composed for them thirty-eight letters, some(24 of them) similar to the Greek, but some(14 of them) different, suitable to express Slavic sounds."

It is thought that this may have been a form of runic script but no authentic examples are known to have survived.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Byzantine Commonwealth, Dimitri Obolensky, page 149

It is significant that, whereas after 893 Cyrillic was adopted by the government and court schools of Preslav, Glagolitic was mainly cultivated – at least until the end of the twelfth century – in the geographically remote and culturally more conservative Macedonian school founded by Clement.

[Constellation]

Cyril and Methodius were Macedonians. Yet the world sees them as Greeks. I hate to quote Wikipedia (which is ungodly to do so, but I must to prove a point).

Saints Cyril and Methodius (Greek: Κύριλλος καὶ Μεθόδιος, Old Church Slavonic: Кѷриллъ и Меѳодїи[more]) were 9th-century Byzantine Greek brothers born in Thessalonica, Macedonia, in the Byzantine Empire. They were the principal Christian missionaries among the Slavic peoples of the Great Moravia and Pannonia, introducing Orthodox Christianity and writing to the hitherto illiterate, pagan Slav migrants into parts of Macedonia and elsewhere in the Balkans.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] Through their work they influenced the cultural development of all Slavs, for which they received the title "Apostles to the Slavs". They are credited with devising the Glagolitic alphabet, the first alphabet used to transcribe Old Church Slavonic.[11]

So according to this, the Greek brothers were Christian missionaries among the pagan Slavic migrants into parts of Macedonia and elsewhere.

So this raises a few questions:

1. If Saint Paul brought Christianity to ancient Macedonia, then why would the two brothers feel the need to Christianize the pagan Slavic peoples in Macedonia and elsewhere? The answer would have to be that most of the ancients were wiped out by the invading Slavs, and so the Greeks, rather than Hellenizing them, decided to use the Slavs' own tongue, which somehow they knew, to create an alphabet to Christianize them.

2. What language did the Macedonians in St. Paul's day speak? Intellectually, the lingua franca was Greek, but what was the vernacular tongue? This is a contenious subject.

3. If Slavic is native to the Balkans, why would Greeks, and not Slavic speakers, devise a church Slavonic alphabet?

The position of Wikipedia is that the present day Macedonians are descendants of the pagan Slavs and that we owe our Christianity to the Greeks and indeed are intellectual lives to them as well.

It is not universally accepted that the brothers were Greek, however. In fact, the Bulgarians regard them as Bulgarian, and the Macedonians regarded them as Macedonian.

Cyril and Methodius' father was an important and influential city official in Thessalonica and held a high rank in the Byzantine society since the city was the second most important in the Empire. Not only that he was an important Macedonian but not too long afterwards the whole Byzantine Empire was ruled by the Macedonians from the Macedonian dynasty, period known as the Golden Age of the Empire. Thus there is only one possible and logical explanation for the ethnicity of the Salonica brothers - they were ethnic Macedonians, descendents of the Macedonians of Philip II, Alexander the Great, and Cassander. Under the direct order of the Byzantine Emperor Cyril and Methodius educated the Slavs which settled among the Macedonians in Macedonia in order to culturally integrate them into the empire, and for that act they became known as the "Slav apostles".

So if the brothers were Macedonian, it raises a different question:

If there were Slavic migrants or invaders in the southern Balkans, including Macedonia, what language did the ethnic Macedonians speak in the 9th century? The same as Philip and Alexander? If so, how did they stop speaking this language in the 9th century and start speaking Slavic?

[DraganOfStip]

Where did you extract the second quote from?
Wikipedia,like the first?

If there were Slavic migrants or invaders in the southern Balkans, including Macedonia...

Are you again questioning the Slavic migration theory?

P.S.:There is another thread about the Holy brothers in this forum,please don't use your "Slavic pattern" and create a few more on the same subject.

[Constellation]

Originally Posted by DraganOfStip

Where did you extract the second quote from?
Wikipedia,like the first?

No. http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Ro...Methodius.html

Are you again questioning the Slavic migration theory?

I have legitimate questions about this theory. There are people on this forum who deny it. There are people on this forum who affirm it. Some Macedonians on this forum believe the ancient Macedonians spoke a similar language to what modern Macedonians speak. Some Macedonians believe Slavic was adopted when Slavs migrated/invaded the Balkans.

These are all theories. I am not sure which is true, but I am trying to figure this out. What I do know for sure (scientifically) is that today's Macedonians could not have descended from ethnic Slavic migrants in the 6th century. It is impossible.

P.S.:There is another thread about the Holy brothers in this forum,please don't use your "Slavic pattern" and create a few more on the same subject.

Perhaps you can forward the link?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by DraganOfStip

There is another thread about the Holy brothers in this forum....

I have merged them together.

Originally Posted by Constellation

Cyril and Methodius were Macedonians. Yet the world sees them as Greeks.

Do you know of any medieval sources which refer to them as 'Greeks'?

If Saint Paul brought Christianity to ancient Macedonia, then why would the two brothers feel the need to Christianize the pagan Slavic peoples in Macedonia and elsewhere? The answer would have to be that most of the ancients were wiped out by the invading Slavs.......

If that is what the answer would have to be as you've indicated above, how does that fit into to your theory that today's Macedonians are genetically different to those 'pagan Slavs'?

What language did the Macedonians in St. Paul's day speak? Intellectually, the lingua franca was Greek, but what was the vernacular tongue? This is a contenious subject.

What language do you think they spoke as a vernacular?

If there were Slavic migrants or invaders in the southern Balkans, including Macedonia, what language did the ethnic Macedonians speak in the 9th century? The same as Philip and Alexander? If so, how did they stop speaking this language in the 9th century and start speaking Slavic?

Interesting question. What is your theory on the above?