Ivo Petkovski - The Traitor

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  • Strive
    Banned
    • Jul 2010
    • 15

    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    What have Macedonians done so wrong to be relegated to a second class nation such that they are not allowed to self identify as Macedonians? Answer this Strive.
    Come on Risto. Macedonians will always self identify as Macedonians no matter what the name of the country is that they live in. The UN has formally branded Macedonia as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Has that stopped the populace at home and abroad from self identifying as Macedonian?


    It already has with the FYROM name. Within 20 years the Greeks have caused enough confusion about the issue that a disinterested party has now changed their perception of what it means to be "Macedonian". How silly is that?
    Im not buying this argument. The Greeks will always want to cause confusion with regards to the name no matter what the name of the country is.

    Since my people come from what is now Greece, I technically could call myself a Macedonian (along with millions of Turkish christian imports) but my relatives over the border would have to call themselves North Vardarian Macedonians or something. It is inferior. Stop kidding yourself.
    And you call my arguments weak? Do you seriously believe that your relatives across the border will call themselves Northern Macedonians? Do you sense that their identity is so fragile that they will change what they call themselves? Come on Risto. Using your logic your relatives should be currently calling themselves FYROMians. Are they?

    In fact most people that hide their IP address are already or have been here and their agendas are already established. So rather than fearing for your physical safety, this is more of an opportunity for you to pollute the forum with opinions that do not reflect the will of Macedonians and the Macedonian Cause.
    I do fear for my safety and I am only providing a dissenting view. This is my perception of the hostility faced by anyone that does not tow the compnay line around here.

    Macedonians from Macedonia cannot be trusted to maintain their identity because they are under duress.
    What kind of duress Risto? Economic hardship perhaps?

    I think Bulgaria is an excellent example for assessing the benefits of EU membership. How has it gained since joining the EU? In particular, how has it improved itself as compared to Macedonia? How do you think it will look after it has helped to bail out Greece (amongst others)?
    10 years from now Greece and Bulgaria will be miles ahead of Macedonia in the spectrum of economics and European politics. You did not answer my question, if there are no political and economic benefits to the EU why is Macedonia, and many of her neighbors, constantly knocking on the EU door to get in? Is compromising, by adding a prefix or suffix to the name, so bad that it is worth putting Macedonia on the sidelines of the first world for the next decades? Do you want Macedonia to be another backwater state like Albania so that the diaspora can save face in front of some whacky Greeks?

    Comment

    • Bratot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2855

      Strive.. or Ivo, which one identity you preffer doesn't matter really, but instead of parroting all around about the NATO/EU sacrifice we "need" to do, stop ignoring my posts and respond to the presented argumentation.

      We already explained to you how this name change you call "compromise worth" will erode our identity and will provide flat path to erasing our lineage of being Macedonians.

      I suggest no one replay to you before you explain how with giving up of the BASIC HUMAN RIGHT and the LEGAL RIGHT of our self identification can be WORTH committing national suicide and humiliation for PROMISES to happen by joining some organization which doesn't respect us for who we are at first place.

      Your deceptive theories how we will economically flourish after joining NATO/EU are pretty much corrupted since we are witnessing the bankruptcy of a Greece, Protugal, Italia... next to come are Bulgaria and Romania.

      Greece will not recover in the next 50 years dude, so stop fooling around with worn out propaganda.



      Last edited by Bratot; 07-09-2010, 02:55 PM.
      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

      Comment

      • Onur
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2010
        • 2389

        Originally posted by Bratot View Post

        Your deceptive theories how we will economically flourish after joining NATO/EU are pretty much corrupted since we are witnessing the bankruptcy of a Greece, Protugal, Italia... next to come are Bulgaria and Romania.

        Greece will not recover in the next 50 years dude, so stop fooling around with worn out propaganda.

        Also lets not forget that EU struggled and gave very bad signals even to save a country as small as Greece with a relatively small GDP comparing to other big guns of EU. Do you think what can happen if the situation in Italy or any other country go worse? Can you imagine how much money would be needed to save a G-20 economy like Italy?

        If any other country than Greece goes bankrupt, EU will be over for sure since German taxpayers wouldn't like to pay another 100-150 billion EU to anyone.

        As for the Greece. It`s highly possible that they wont be able to payback their debt since it reached insane amounts. The thing is, Greece is totally dependent to EU for 20 years, both politically and economically. I believe that if EU dissolves, then Greece goes in riot as well because i don't think they are capable of surviving as their own. They were always a protectorate and they will remain so.
        Last edited by Onur; 07-09-2010, 03:18 PM.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          Originally posted by Strive View Post
          The UN has formally branded Macedonia as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Has that stopped the populace at home and abroad from self identifying as Macedonian?
          The name is so ridiculous that it is ignored. But we have proof how enslaved people can be. Once the flag change was forced upon Macedonia, many of the enslaved Macedonian people have now become attached to the new flag. Go figure. Who knows, they may be equally attracted to the new name. You would be fine with this because you are anti-Macedonian.

          Originally posted by Strive View Post
          Im not buying this argument. The Greeks will always want to cause confusion with regards to the name no matter what the name of the country is.
          And how would you proposal represent "progress" for Macedonia?

          Originally posted by Strive View Post
          And you call my arguments weak? Do you seriously believe that your relatives across the border will call themselves Northern Macedonians?
          Over time, they might. They have done this with the flag that represents them. Do you deny that more confusion over the name "Macedonian" has occurred since Greece has been "stirring the pot" over the last 20 years?

          Originally posted by Strive View Post
          I do fear for my safety and I am only providing a dissenting view. This is my perception of the hostility faced by anyone that does not tow the compnay line around here.
          No problem StrIvo. You have nothing to fear here except for looking like an idiot and/or Greek (hint ... they are not mutually exclusive).

          There is a thread about the Macedonian Cause which most Macedonians have embraced. How do you think your proposals align with that?

          Originally posted by Strive View Post
          What kind of duress Risto? Economic hardship perhaps?
          I do not actually believe they are under duress, they believe they are. It is the threat of economic hardship more so than actual hardship. They all eat in Macedonia and will not suffer one bit as they watch the civil unrest in Greece explode.


          Originally posted by Strive View Post
          10 years from now Greece and Bulgaria will be miles ahead of Macedonia in the spectrum of economics and European politics. You did not answer my question, if there are no political and economic benefits to the EU why is Macedonia, and many of her neighbors, constantly knocking on the EU door to get in? Is compromising, by adding a prefix or suffix to the name, so bad that it is worth putting Macedonia on the sidelines of the first world for the next decades? Do you want Macedonia to be another backwater state like Albania so that the diaspora can save face in front of some whacky Greeks?
          StrIvo, we have no way of knowing what Greece and Bulgaria will be like in 10 years time. If we follow trends they will be rubbing sticks together to make fires back in their caves by then. Macedonia is trying to get in to the EU for some reason. The process has been good in a number of ways such that the modernisation of its legal, economic and banking systems is a healthy by-product. I am quite sure the politicians who assist with any EU entry will personally gain financially from the process. I see no reason for actual entry into the EU. Aside from the promise of (arguably) more debt than funds received, I am very skeptical of the benefits you espouse. You will have to have much more proof than simply saying "it will be great being in the EU".

          I would hope Macedonia saves face in front of the world. I could not care less about Greeks.

          Does it occur to you that Macedonia, by remaining out of the EU, can actually gain from distinguishing itself in Europe? That it can create industry that does not have to follow strict EU guidelines. The EU is telling a number of its member states exactly what they must do in relation to their growth and employment. Would a poor European country be in a position to tell the EU what is fair for it? We have proof the EU can deny member states the opportunity to vote in relation to issues. Sounds like further diminished sovereignty to me.

          You are not here for dialogue StrIvo, you will be banned shortly because you are simply here to fulfill an agenda that has nothing to do with Macedonia.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            Originally posted by OziMak View Post
            Nope. Dead wrong. You have explained the point from every angle possible in minute detail that a deaf and blind person would understand by now and yet Ivo and now Srive are in the negative and trying to maintain their position of I cant see the difference it would make…you haven’t explained you point.

            They are riding you to get you mad.

            Their arguments are imbecile. You know the saying what it means to entertain a fool…

            Although one so called good out of this it gave you practice against the kind of stupidity we ie Macedonians personally and Macedonia will face in the not too distant future.

            I don’t know the reach of the MTO so a clear victory and exposing Ivo and co for the illogical creatures that they are is victory and gives you the warm and fuzzy feeling but have you truly put these creatures in their place and shut them up.

            I have said in the past we are not the same as the Jews but we have a number of similarities and as such we should look at their experiences and see if we can apply any of their successes to our own situation. No offence RTG and any other administrators but I doubt the MTO has the readership that the papers who degrade themselves by letting creatures like these be publish. The Jews would not let the fight end only in their own publications but instead would take the fight to the creatures publication. This is as much a war of public opinion as it is the diplomacy going on by the government.

            As the saying goes all that evil needs to win is good men to do nothing.

            There are many good men and women on this site.
            OM, sometimes stating the obvious to people like Ivo & Ivo is a useful exercise. It helps people who have been on the fence. There is no help for Ivo & Ivo, but there is for the fence sitters.

            Don't underestimate the power of this forum. Search Google on a good day and we are right up the top of rankings on issues pertaining to Macedonia. Further, we are predominantly in English and that is useful when world opinion is in search of reason.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Phoenix
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 4671

              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              OM, sometimes stating the obvious to people like Ivo & Ivo is a useful exercise. It helps people who have been on the fence. There is no help for Ivo & Ivo, but there is for the fence sitters.
              ...lol...'Ivo & Ivo', sounds like a very dodgy legal firm...

              The most disappointing thing in this sad prostitution undertaken by Ivo & Ivo is in the stampede to collect his 'allocated' 15 minutes of fame, by doing so, he has recklessly torpedoed the life-long work of activists throughout the diaspora and within the Republic of Macedonia itself.

              Countless Macedonian activists have dedicated years of their personal lives, personal finances and often without seeking any personal recognition or reward for their committment to a cause that persues the simple and universally acknoweldged rights to self determination and freedom itself.

              Then along comes a turd like Petkovski, to take his place in the queue of the damned dushman, those disgusting individuals happily prostituting themselves to the highest bidder. The traitors and turncoacts devoid of dignity or any measure of self respect, those willing to wear the ill fitting coats of other nationalities.

              The opportunists of the Ivo & Ivo school of ethnic capitulation are easily bought, often fools gold is enough to win them over.

              Ivo, be an Englishman...ebi si mater, if that is the way you would prefer to live your life but don't take up your position on the 'Guardian Soap Box' assuming you speak as someone who has even a remote interest in the outcome for people who dearly love and protect their Macedonian identity.

              Be assured my friend, your fears of personal violence and your search for anonymity won't give you peace of mind as so many before you have found out...the dushman will forever live a tortured life, Karma ensures this.

              Comment

              • julie
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 3869

                Please answer my question.
                What country has been forced to change their name to enter a big boys club in this 21st century?
                What benefits do you see for Macedonia in entering the EU
                How can you guarantee Macedonia will not be forced to bail Greece out if they enteri the EU?



                STRIVE and IVO said I do fear for my safety and I am only providing a dissenting view. This is my perception of the hostility faced by anyone that does not tow the compnay line around here.

                I dont understand how these 2 people have come up with the exact same comment.
                Why?
                One must ask the question, what is it you are afraid of?
                People that live in fear are people that generally have something to be genuinely afraid of. Psychologically analysing this, people that generally do live in fear in any given society are people that either a) have been threatened/harassed/bullied or b) dishonest people that have committed some sort of act and concerned of being found out

                The truth will always prevail, and from a religious perspective, judgement comes in the form of karma and God

                and secondly and more importantly STRIVO PETKOVSKI your comment
                If the diaspora is so confident in the will of the citizens then why does a particular Macedonian Human rights organization feel the need to place ads in the Macednonian media to encourage the populace not to change the name?



                Just who the hell do you think you are? What gives you the right to publish in the Guardian your journalistic piece of *%$@!*()*&%

                That so called certain basic human rights association is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS ASSOCIATION. They are not profiteering or defaming their people, they are offering support. They are offering BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS and offering poeple the RIGHT FOR SELF DETERMINATION .
                Their basic God given right!

                You have not answered one question that has been asked of you, everyone has been respectful, and you are either a Greek or even worse, a wannabe Greek

                Za stramota.
                Last edited by julie; 07-09-2010, 11:24 PM.
                "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                Comment

                • aleksandrov
                  Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 558

                  Originally posted by Strive View Post
                  ...It is my opinion that a formal and democratic vote take place in the republic with regards to a name change...
                  The citizens of Macedonia already expressed their democratic will about the identity of their state through the referendum of independence and the constitution of a sovereign Macedonian Republic that was subsequently adopted by their freely elected representatives.

                  A referendum held under duress, where EU and NATO meddlers, with the assistance of foreign-owned media in Macedonia, run by a vassal like Srgan Kerim, intimidate much of the population into submission by suggesting that if they don't vote for a name change they will face ruin, would not reflect FREE will and would therefore be illegitimate according to international human rights standards (including the Universal Declaration on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political rights).

                  Do you consider the results of the 2004 referendum against ethnically-based redrawing of local government borders and decentralization of government power to have been a reflection of the FREE democratic will of the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia (see http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=3973 )?

                  Would you support "a formal and democratic vote" for a resolution to declare the Interim Accord with Greece and the Ohrid Framework Agreement null and void?

                  On the issue of ethno-cultural rights, I asked you earlier whether you agree that ethnic Macedonians who do not consider themselves "Slavs" should be entitled to the privilege of the "Badinter Principle", which ethnic Albanians are entitled to under the Ohrid Framework Agreement. Why have you avoided this question, if you truly believe that your position is fair and objective and that the Framework Agreement is just?

                  As far as your suggestion that our position is made easy by the fact that we live abroad is concerned, can you remind us where you live and who pays you for your 'professional' work?

                  Don't try to equate yourself with the average Macedonian in the Republic of Macedonia. As apathetic and misguided as that population may be as a result of foreign propaganda, disillusionment with corrupt domestic vassals and a slave mentality cultivated over centuries of foreign oppressive rule, the average Macedonian is certainly not the deviously materialistic servant of foreign oppressors that you appear to be.
                  Last edited by aleksandrov; 07-09-2010, 11:52 PM.
                  All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                  https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                  Comment

                  • Bratot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2855

                    Hey StrIvo,

                    you were the one who mentioned the economical difference?

                    Check this out:

                    Hundreds of Greeks travel daily to Macedonia and Bulgaria to obtain lower prices gasoline, cigarettes, alcoholic beverages and many other products.

                    Αγόρασε και πούλησε τα πάντα στη Νο 1 πλατφόρμα διαφημίσεων στην Ελλάδα, την Κύπρο και τη Βουλγαρία. Ψάξε ανάμεσα σε χιλιάδες αγγελίες για μεταχειρισμένα και καινούργια αντικείμενα και συνδέσου με αγοραστές και πωλητές στις τρεις χώρες!


                    Αγόρασε και πούλησε τα πάντα στη Νο 1 πλατφόρμα διαφημίσεων στην Ελλάδα, την Κύπρο και τη Βουλγαρία. Ψάξε ανάμεσα σε χιλιάδες αγγελίες για μεταχειρισμένα και καινούργια αντικείμενα και συνδέσου με αγοραστές και πωλητές στις τρεις χώρες!



                    wow... is this EU you were telling us about, it doesn't look atractive anymore
                    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      StrIvo did not have answers.
                      He will shrink back to his existence and try to interfere with Macedonia again at some later date.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Bill77
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 4545

                        Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                        Hey StrIvo,

                        you were the one who mentioned the economical difference?

                        Check this out:

                        Hundreds of Greeks travel daily to Macedonia and Bulgaria to obtain lower prices gasoline, cigarettes, alcoholic beverages and many other products.

                        Αγόρασε και πούλησε τα πάντα στη Νο 1 πλατφόρμα διαφημίσεων στην Ελλάδα, την Κύπρο και τη Βουλγαρία. Ψάξε ανάμεσα σε χιλιάδες αγγελίες για μεταχειρισμένα και καινούργια αντικείμενα και συνδέσου με αγοραστές και πωλητές στις τρεις χώρες!


                        Αγόρασε και πούλησε τα πάντα στη Νο 1 πλατφόρμα διαφημίσεων στην Ελλάδα, την Κύπρο και τη Βουλγαρία. Ψάξε ανάμεσα σε χιλιάδες αγγελίες για μεταχειρισμένα και καινούργια αντικείμενα και συνδέσου με αγοραστές και πωλητές στις τρεις χώρες!



                        wow... is this EU you were telling us about, it doesn't look atractive anymore
                        I don't think Ivo has stepped foot in Greece and see the real impact. He can only assume or be told what to say.

                        I am not talking about yesterday or a year ago but almost a decade ago i whitnesed with my own eyes the struggles and quality of life especialy in the Lerin region. I heard with my own ears the complaints such as how there pockets were full when they had the drakma as a currency, how there are over 30% unemployed, and the cursing towards the euro and west.

                        Regarding the hundreds of Greeks traveling to Macedonia to shop..... its nothing new, this has been happening since day one of the introduction of the euro.

                        I wander if the Macedonians in ROM are aware of this?

                        My little poor old auntie in Lerin depends on what she grows in her yard every year to feed her self. she goes out hunched back milking neighbours cows and any other chores just to earn what ever little she can get. Each visit i would bring her groceries from Bitola she would smile like a kid and it was christmas. I as a westerner found it difficult to manage in a day, what hope do these over 30% unemployed have (figures would be worse now i guess). How do they mannage. How would our people manage if ROM was to enter EU and convert to the euro.
                        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          Ivo & Ivo were never to be seen again.
                          Rumour has it they are satisfying "themself" in a coastal resort somewhere in Greece nowadays.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

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