United Macedonia Diaspora - Page 122

Buktop · 01-13-2010, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Buktop, I've answered your ridiculous questions - not only that, but I've taken it about 10 steps further. Try reading it. If you reply with something sensible, maybe we can move on, otherwise, I'll have to revert back to calling you a Charlatan.

Everyone take a good look at this thread and the amount of times I have asked Vangelovski the same questions and yet he refuses to answer... Why? Because he does not want to admit he is wrong.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=2423&page=6

Buktop · 01-13-2010, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Buktop, I think its time that you show your cards - rather than accusing everyone of "personal" agenda's while hiding behind an internet pseudonym.

Why do you blindly defend UMD? Are you a UMD member? Are you a UMD Board Member? Why are you acting as an apologist for UMD's blatant support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement? Living in New Jersey (Meto's home state), what are you links to Meto?

Why does my name concern you so much? What does my name have to do with the content of my posts?

My defense is not blind and I have answered that question several times already, no I am not a UMD member or board member. Not apologizing for anything, you have yet to show where UMD supports the interim accord or framework agreement other than your misinterpreted quotes. I worked with Meto in MOYANA a few years ago, after that we lost touch.

Vangelovski, have you ever even met with Meto? Or any of the board members in America?

Vangelovski · 01-13-2010, 05:03 AM

Charlatan,

Did you read my post? I'll dumb it down for you.

A parliament and/or government is LIMITED by the Constitution. This means that the parliament and/or government ONLY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS THEM TO - NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND - EVERYTHING ELSE IS OFF BOUNDS.

ITS NOT A CASE OF THE PARLAIMENT AND/OR GOVERNMENT HAVING FREE RANGE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT UNLESS THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THEY CAN'T. DO YOU GET IT???

If the constitution does not ALLOW it, then by defualt they don't have the authority. They only have the authority to do those specific things that the constitution ALLOWS. The constitution would have to specifically ALLOW the parliament and/or government to negotiate with a third party the contents of the constitution. THE MACEDONIAN CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROVIDE THEM WITH THAT AUTHORITY.

Seeing as you mention James Madison, why don't you actually read up on the founding fathers and see what role they saw for Congress and whether they believed Congress could act outside of the paramaters of the constitution.

READ A BOOK - ANY BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vangelovski · 01-13-2010, 05:06 AM

Charlatan,

Your defence is blind. I just provided a quote where UMD specifically called on Greece to abide by the Accord.

Vangelovski · 01-13-2010, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buktop

Started? Vangelovski, what was the exact date of your resignation? And what was the exact date of the approval of the bylaws? You claim to know so much, and yet until yesterday you didn't even know that UMD board members held elections... You were complaining to me that "a democratic organization should hold elections" and yet you didn't even know that they do hold them.

You were a board member for 4 years and you don't know anything about UMD... or you are intentionally misrepresenting the facts. Why don't you come clean?

Charlatan,

Please show me when in the past five years UMD held elections? If you want to know whether I was a UMD member for four years or not, ask your mentor. While your at it, ask him how hard he wants you to push on here and how much information he wants to be provided?

Buktop · 01-13-2010, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

They only have the authority to do those specific things that the constitution ALLOWS

Quote:

UNLESS THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THEY CAN'T

The constitution, as said by yourself, does not contain any clauses excluding the negotiation of a flag or clauses concerning the alteration of the constitution through negotiation.

Quote:

Nowhere in the Macedonian Constitution do I see the Macedonian Government been delegated the authority to negotiate changes to the constitution with a third party, in this case a foreign government. Such authority cannot be assumed and must be expressly provided by the people, which it has not.

If the constitution does not have any clauses specifically prohibiting parliamentarians from alterations why wouldn't they be able to?

Also considering the form of government of the Republic of Macedonia, the voting citizens of the country consented to vote for parliamentarians as representatives to act on behalf of their wishes, and as of yet, none of those citizens have rescinded the votes of their elected representatives, thereby constituting consent of their actions.

I asked you before to quote the relevant articles of the constitution that prohibit this and you laughed at me. Do you not know of any clauses?

You either don't understand what I am typing or you don't want to, which is it?

Vangelovski · 01-13-2010, 05:55 AM

Charlatan, it is painfully obvious you have no idea about republicanism.

Quoting half of my sentance does not add to your argument (your second quote) - if you read the first half of the sentance you will see that it says "its not a case of this".

A REPUBLICAN PARLIAMENT/GOVERNMENT HAS NO AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING BEYOND THAT WHICH IS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED FOR UNDER THE CONSTITUTION - THE MACEDONIAN CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROVIDE IT WITH THE AUTHORITY TO NEGOTIATE WITH A FORIEGN STATE OVER THE CONTENTS OF THE CONSTITUTIION - HENCE IT IS NOT ALLOWD TO.

I'm not going to waste my time with this - please read something relevant and come back when you've got a basic knowledge of republicanism.

Buktop · 01-13-2010, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Charlatan,

Please show me when in the past five years UMD held elections? If you want to know whether I was a UMD member for four years or not, ask your mentor. While your at it, ask him how hard he wants you to push on here and how much information he wants to be provided?

As stated by UMD the board of directors were elected in 2008 and are to hold terms of 3 years. You claimed that you were a member 2 years ago, and that the bylaws were being formed while you were there, I am pretty sure that elections would be on the original draft of the bylaws. I do not dispute your membership at UMD, I want to know your exact date of resignation and the exact date of approval of the bylaws (which were being drafted while you were a board member, which means you had a direct role in drafting them) I don't think that is a tough question, or a relatively sensitive question to answer.

Buktop · 01-13-2010, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Charlatan, it is painfully obvious you have no idea about republicanism.

Quoting half of my sentance does not add to your argument.

I'm not going to waste my time with this - please read something relevant and come back when you've got a basic knowledge of republicanism.

Just admit that you are wrong, make this whole process easier.

Can you quote me the relevant articles of the constitution that prohibit these actions?

Vangelovski · 01-13-2010, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buktop

Just admit that you are wrong, make this whole process easier.

Can you quote me the relevant articles of the constitution that prohibit these actions?

Do you have a reading disability?

A REPUBLICAN PARLIAMENT/GOVERNMENT HAS NO AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING BEYOND THAT WHICH IS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED FOR UNDER THE CONSTITUTION - THE MACEDONIAN CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROVIDE IT WITH THE AUTHORITY TO NEGOTIATE WITH A FORIEGN STATE OVER THE CONTENTS OF THE CONSTITUTIION - HENCE IT IS NOT ALLOWD TO.

View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
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01-13-2010, 05:03 AM	#1213
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Charlatan, Did you read my post? I'll dumb it down for you. A parliament and/or government is LIMITED by the Constitution. This means that the parliament and/or government ONLY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS THEM TO - NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND - EVERYTHING ELSE IS OFF BOUNDS. ITS NOT A CASE OF THE PARLAIMENT AND/OR GOVERNMENT HAVING FREE RANGE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT UNLESS THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THEY CAN'T. DO YOU GET IT??? If the constitution does not ALLOW it, then by defualt they don't have the authority. They only have the authority to do those specific things that the constitution ALLOWS. The constitution would have to specifically ALLOW the parliament and/or government to negotiate with a third party the contents of the constitution. THE MACEDONIAN CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROVIDE THEM WITH THAT AUTHORITY. Seeing as you mention James Madison, why don't you actually read up on the founding fathers and see what role they saw for Congress and whether they believed Congress could act outside of the paramaters of the constitution. READ A BOOK - ANY BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-13-2010 at 05:15 AM.

01-13-2010, 05:06 AM	#1214
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Charlatan, Your defence is blind. I just provided a quote where UMD specifically called on Greece to abide by the Accord. __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

01-13-2010, 05:55 AM	#1217
Vangelovski Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,520	Charlatan, it is painfully obvious you have no idea about republicanism. Quoting half of my sentance does not add to your argument (your second quote) - if you read the first half of the sentance you will see that it says "its not a case of this". A REPUBLICAN PARLIAMENT/GOVERNMENT HAS NO AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING BEYOND THAT WHICH IS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED FOR UNDER THE CONSTITUTION - THE MACEDONIAN CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROVIDE IT WITH THE AUTHORITY TO NEGOTIATE WITH A FORIEGN STATE OVER THE CONTENTS OF THE CONSTITUTIION - HENCE IT IS NOT ALLOWD TO. I'm not going to waste my time with this - please read something relevant and come back when you've got a basic knowledge of republicanism. __________________ If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-13-2010 at 05:59 AM.

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