Do Ancient Greeks have African Origins?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yeah, he must have descended from one of those African tribes in 4th century BC Athens On a serious note though, there is a difference between regular curly or wavey hair, and the excessively curly type that we are referring to. You're in Athens now, just take a look outside your window, you'll know what I mean, but don't mistake the person you're looking at for one of those immigrants that you guys seem to try to lynch every few days In any case, I am not suggesting that this is the 'normal' Greek look, but it does appear to be more common in Greece and Italy than anywhere else in southern Europe.

[Voltron]

^ Your right there is difference between curly hair and wavy hair.
Curly hair is certainly not uncommon here in Greece. Wavy hair is more prevalent though. But you will find just as many with straight hair too. We have a healthy mix of all. I never heard before that curly hair is some type of African genetic x factor. Not only is the hair of Africans curly but "waterproof" as well.

One thing that is also common is baldness. I noticed that a lot too over here and in the mediterrenean in general.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Voltron, do you accept that there was an African presence in ancient Greece?

[Voltron]

To be perfectly honest, i never gave it that much thought. In fact I would have to read this thread from the very begining to see what was discussed.

[Voltron]

When we say African are you talking about Nubian type Africans ? Or more along the lines of Egypt / Carthage type ?

[Bill77]

When we say African are you talking about Nubian type Africans ? Or more along the lines of Egypt / Carthage type ?

I don't know, you make up your own mind after seeing these archaeological finds.

[Voltron]

lol, I have never even seen that before. ^
So Bill. what kind of impact do you think Blacks had on Greeks ?
How many of them were around ? How did they get to Greece ?
Could it just be Arts & Crafts ?

[Bill77]

lol, I have never even seen that before. ^

Just because you cant see it it does not mean its not there my little Greek friend

You see.......there is much more to what your eduction system in Ellas brain wash you with.

You should visit some well known museums now and then. I know you are lazy (Just like the rest of your nation) but thanks to the internet, you can visit such places from home.

Better yet, just read the threads here on MTO we are The Louvre, The Vatican Museums, British Museum (just to name a few) all put together. And the good thing is, its all free

[Voltron]

Just because you cant see it it does not mean its not there my little Greek friend

You see.......there is much more to what your eduction system in Ellas brain wash you with.

You should visit some well known museums now and then. I know you are lazy (Just like the rest of your nation) but thanks to the internet, you can visit such places from home.

Better yet, just read the threads here on MTO we are The Louvre, The Vatican Museums, British Museum (just to name a few) all put together. And the good thing is, its all free

Entaksi Bill, but I wasnt educated in Greece. I was educated back home in the US.

Thanks for pointing out more proof that the modern Greeks indeed share the same genes as our ancestors. I think your starting to come around Bill.

[Bill77]

So Bill. what kind of impact do you think Blacks had on Greeks ?

Don't know what you mean?..... "Greek" is somewhat a modern term. But if you are, referring to the modern Greeks, No impact at all. The modern Greeks are just a later (very late) arrivals to occupy the land. The modern Greeks ancestors were Albanian, Turk, Vlachs that had nothing in common with these racially mixed Ancient Hellenes.

How many of them were around ?

Many, considering they were the first to inhabit the land. The original Hellenes.

How did they get to Greece ?

[Voltron]

Im not a rocket scientist by all means, but when you say that the orginal Hellenes had a " Nubian Element " then point out to our "curley" hair today I can only come to a conclusion that we in fact share the same genes as our ancestors.

[Bill77]

Im not a rocket scientist by all means, but when you say that the orginal Hellenes had a " Nubian Element " then point out to our "curley" hair today I can only come to a conclusion that we in fact share the same genes as our ancestors.

No you are not a rocket scientist at all. In fact it seems a chicken can out smart you JK.

But please do read this thread (as you suggested) from the beginning.

But regarding this recent post of yours, if you read the preceding post, you will see that i don't think you are related to these original ancient Hellenes, but are related to,

Albanian, Turk, Vlachs that had nothing in common with these racially mixed Ancient Hellenes.

Which is mabe why you would not find a Modern Greek with curly woolly hair.

Speaking of woolly (Curley) hair,

GREEK DESCRIPTIONS OF NEGROES

The Classical Greeks most commonly described Negroes as “Ethiopians”, or

In Diod. Sic. 3.8.2, Tetr. 2.2, and Strabo 15.1.24, Sext. Empiric. Adv. Ethicos, In Herodotus 7.70,43 for example, is associated with black skin, woolly hair, and a flat nose.

Herodotus even differentiates between the woolly-haired and the straight-haired Ethiopians, in relation to each other from West to East; which we today know is the result of Arabic/Semitic admixture.

In Arr. An. 5.4.4. Aristot. Probl. 10.66.698B., an Ethiopian’s skin is called the blackest in the world.

Lucian Adv. Indoctum 28. notes the proverbial

which means to “wash an Ethiopian white”.

When the Greeks wanted to illustrate blackness of color, they often selected the Ethiopian for this purpose. (Lucian Bis. Acc. 6. In which reference is made to tanning the skin until it resembles an Ethiopian’s, and Ach. Tat. 4.5.2, in which mention is made of a flower among the Greeks as dark as an Ethiopian’s skin.[/QUOTE]

[The LION will ROAR]

Black Youth Greece 300 BC



Modern Greeks shouldn't worry about the ancient Greeks/Africans, you are not related to them..we are talking about the ancient Hellenic tribes and city-states..
We should not forget that the ancient Hellenic city-states made up more slaves than the free citizens?
So can our greek friends tell us what happen to them..?

[The LION will ROAR]

Friedrich Neubauer, Bernhard Seyfert, Lehrbuch der Geschichte 1. Teil (1922) (used on universities and other schools)

describing the Greek Colonization, 8th century BC... saylors and traders from Africa and Asia settling in several locations in the Mediteranian Area, like Atina and other... changing the society, creating NEW "Nation", Culture...

[The LION will ROAR]

J.A. Rogers, Parker (1917,1918).

Parker (1917,1918) used anthropological, archaeological, historical and classical sources to prove that blacks once lived in the Aegean. Parker (1917,1918) used the Greek classics to prove that the Pelasgians were of African origin. He also discussed the origin stories about the Pelasgic founders of selected Grecian cities and proved that these men were blacks and not Indo-Europeans. Parker (1917, pp.341-42) also observed that "the great Grecian epics are epics of an African people and Helen, the cause of the Trojan war, must henceforth be conceived as a beautiful brown skin girl" . These Africans sailed to the Greece from North Africa.


Early boat used by the ancient Pelasgians in Greece


Using archaeological evidence and the classical literature C.A. Winters (1983b) explained how the African/Black founders of Grecian civilization originally came from the ancient Sahara. Winters(1983b) makes it clear that these Blacks came to the Aegean in two waves 1) the Garamantes a Malinke speaking people that now live along the Niger river, but formerly lived in the Fezzan region of Libya; and 2) the Egyptians, Phoenicians and East Africans who were recorded in Greece's history as the Pelasgians. The Pelasgian civilization has been discussed in detail by Parker (1917,1918).

The Pelasgians founded many cities. The Pelasgian founding of Athens is noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii, 402 ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes. Many of these Athenians may have introduced the Geometric style to Greece during the so-called Dark Ages (1200- 600 BC).

Another by G. W. Parker wrote that:

"I need not go into details concerning the ethnical relations of the Romans, since they, too are Mediterranean and are closely related to the same African confederation of races ...[situated in Greece]. Aeneas, their mythical founder of Troy. The Aenead, like the Illiad, and Odyssey and all other of the world's great epics, is the poetic story dealing with African people". The heroes of these tales used long shields, the characteristic shields of the Indo-European speaking Greeks were round.